Gravysites: Where 9/11 Conspiracies are Laid to Rest

Cool.

Thanks for your work.
My pleasure. Thanks for reading.

Just wondering any chance of a ground zeros part 2? Also make sure you are there on sept 11 because someone needs to be there so they don't get there "facts" across. Or better yet just send mongo!
There is another, better GZ video in the works. I've put it aside for a while because I've been busy with other things, but it should be done this month. I've dispatched Mongo to deal with the truthers.

Use of High-Efficiency Energy Absorbing Device to Arrest Progressive Collapse of Tall Building Qing Zhou and T. X. Yu Journal of Engineering Mechanics 130, 1177 (2004)

Recent advances in fire–structure analysis
Fire Safety Journal, In Press, Corrected Proof, Available online 20 August 2007,
Dat Duthinh, Kevin McGrattan and Abed Khaskia

Coupled fire dynamics and thermal response of complex building structures
Proceedings of the Combustion Institute, Volume 30, Issue 2, January 2005, Pages 2255-2262 Kuldeep Prasad and Howard R. Baum

Prasad and Baum is somewhat redundant since it is used directly in NCSTAR1-5F and G, but it is worth reading nonetheless.

and also:

http://nistreview.org/WTC7-COLLAPSE-SCHEUERMAN.pdf

sorry if any of these are repeats, I tried to find new sources that I had found personally useful.
Good stuff. I shall add them. I highly recommend the Scheuerman paper. He's an ex-FDNY Battalion Chief and an expert on high rise fires and building collapse.
 
No official relationship that I'm aware of. Meaning they do not speak officialy for or represent JREF in any capacity. They just happen to post here. And they just have alot of fellow posters here who agree, for the most part, with thier views.
 
So you are Mark Roberts?
I am. Hello.

Is Ronald Wieck here too?
Yes, he posts here as "pomeroo."
What is the relationship of JREF with the Hardfire program?
There is none, nor do members of this forum speak for the JREF, except for administrators posting about JREF policy or the infrequent post by James Randi. Ron Wieck is an occasional host of Hardfire, which is a cable-access TV show in New York City.
 
Does that not seem like a reasonable request or demand, when the future of "Democracy" is at stake?

Indeed you should be inquisitive, skeptical and doubt aspects presented mainstream'ishly if you will, however, one shouldn't make crap up or throw wild speculations around like candy (like Alex Jones does all too often).

Naturally the US Government, from a variety of intelligence sources, reports etc, recieve threats and information about possible terrorist activity and plans every day throughout the year. But... was the information concerning 9/11 enough for an interception?
Did the Government simply drop the ball on obvious enough information, or was it too inconclusive and too late? Or did they purposely turn a blind-eye to very specific information that could have caused and interception of the hijackers?
This is what I ment with it leading to wild speculation.

To establish a link between Mossad, CIA, FBI and prior knowledge of the actual hijackers and the actual plans is prone to cause such short-handed speculations, chasing after rainbows and theories that are virtually impossible to establish from any bits of known information, satisfyingly that is.
To establish such a link, we would first have to see that the Mossad, CIA and or FBI had enough information on the specific terrorists and their plans, to intercept the actual hijackers before they could have acted on their plans. We must know that they did have it, not just assume or guess.

This is exactly where the unfalsifiable pitch comes calling;"Well the Feds must have buried the evidence" or what have you. It sounds cute and it could be true but so "could" a lot of things. It is not coherent nor advisable to use such an excuse as a way of maintaining an already handicapped thesis.

If they (the US Government) didn't have enough information to intercept them (the perps), then the issue is a non-sequitor. Because, if the US Government were to close down airlines over the country or parts of it, airports due to every threat as so, me thinks that they would more or less have to be shut down for most parts of the year. I doubt there's a shortage on threats and warnings about terrorist activity, nor plans thereof.

A further comparison necessary for people eager to connect Mossad or the US Government with the "prior knowledge" issue as so, would be to find some sort of comparison between the plethora of different threats, warnings etc during the months before 9/11. Studying the nature of each and every element of threat, evaluating the necessities for investigating a particular threat more closely, evaluating the possible ways to circumvent the threat before hand through gathering up enough information to pin-point the dates, targets, suspects etc without causing too much social chaos or disturbance (shutting down airports, grounding planes and so forth due to suspicions based on too inconclusive reports or rumours is generally shunned, this is something I do know about law enforcement and intelligence work)

The main point is that, if it is to be called an "inside job" by any stretch of ones imagination, there had to have been enough incriminating information and viable leads for the US Government to do an interception on the given hijackers prior to 9/11.
If there wasn't enough leads/information leading up through the terrorist-string to these specific muslims and their specific plans prior to 9/11 then not any branch of the Government can be considered a co-conspirator as so.
 
Gravy, I have more 9/11 debunking links from our good friends at PhysicsForums. :D
Thanks, but those are pretty old, and I don't see anything that hasn't been covered concisely elsewhere. I didn't read all the pages, though. :)
 
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i wasn't sure exactly where to make this post, but i just wanted to say to gravy in particular, thank you for helping me realize how stupid it was to believe what was said in loose change. the first time i saw it i just accepted most of what they were telling me (not everything they said tricked me) i think partially because i just gave them the benefit of the doubt and also i suspect illogically because of a dislike for the bush administration.

in any event, that all changed when i saw your debate with the loose change kids on hardfire. it was like it woke me up from a nonsensical dream or something and i immediately realized how ridiculous it was for me to have agreed with what was presented in that "documentary". since then i've tried to educate myself a lot on this subject so that i can debate the conspiracy theorists and try to make them realize how wrong their views on september 11th are or at least so that i can offer a voice of reason to people who are hearing about it for the first time.

again, i just wanted to thank you personally for helping me realize the errors of my ways, and to thank you in general for all of the work you're doing.
 
Thanks, but those are pretty old, and I don't see anything that hasn't been covered concisely elsewhere. I didn't read all the pages, though. :)

Yeah, I know they are, but it's still a good reference. They don't accept any more threads about that nonsense on that forum and for good reason.
 
i wasn't sure exactly where to make this post, but i just wanted to say to gravy in particular, thank you for helping me realize how stupid it was to believe what was said in loose change. the first time i saw it i just accepted most of what they were telling me (not everything they said tricked me) i think partially because i just gave them the benefit of the doubt and also i suspect illogically because of a dislike for the bush administration.

in any event, that all changed when i saw your debate with the loose change kids on hardfire. it was like it woke me up from a nonsensical dream or something and i immediately realized how ridiculous it was for me to have agreed with what was presented in that "documentary". since then i've tried to educate myself a lot on this subject so that i can debate the conspiracy theorists and try to make them realize how wrong their views on september 11th are or at least so that i can offer a voice of reason to people who are hearing about it for the first time.

again, i just wanted to thank you personally for helping me realize the errors of my ways, and to thank you in general for all of the work you're doing.

We've all had our doubts and temptations in our mind before. Just think of Gravy and inspire to be him. :D
 
Gravy,

I've got to ask you about your binder. Do you have other stuff on other subjects in it or is it just a 9/11 conspiracy binder?
 
In page 1 of this thread are several complimentary references to "Gravy's video," the super-big one. Would anyone care to clue me in on which of the hundreds of links offered here we are talking about? I have a fast connection and I don't mind downloading anything under a Terrabyte.
 
In page 1 of this thread are several complimentary references to "Gravy's video," the super-big one. Would anyone care to clue me in on which of the hundreds of links offered here we are talking about? I have a fast connection and I don't mind downloading anything under a Terrabyte.
The video is on Google Video now, so you don't have to download it:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5004042232637229146&hl=en

From the Papers, Videos and Appearances page:
http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/someonlinepapersandvideosbyme
 
Have you read "Hand Waving” the Physics of 9/11 " by David Griscom?
Griscom with 185 peer reviewed papers is one of the worlds most respected scientist.
I was wondering why anybody would take Mark Roberts take on scientific issues over somebody like Griscom? Roberts has no qualifications that I can find. While Griscom is one of the most sourced scientist in the world. Nist's own James Quintiere says nist investigation was "blocked from seeking answers" and Quintiere wants a new independent investigation. Doesn't that prove what Steven Jones & company have been saying all along?
 
Welcome to the forums, lisabob2.

Feel free to start a thread about what's wrong with physical explanations provided by the 9/11 investigators. I recommend that you first use the forum search function, since these issues have likely been discussed before.

As for my errors, there is an active thread about them. If you have a problem with my work, please discuss it there.

lisabob2, what do I get wrong?

Oh, and for people who prefer videos, I'll have a little video available tonight that demonstates how incompetent and dishonest Steven Jones et al are.
 
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i wasn't sure exactly where to make this post, but i just wanted to say to gravy in particular, thank you for helping me realize how stupid it was to believe what was said in loose change. the first time i saw it i just accepted most of what they were telling me (not everything they said tricked me) i think partially because i just gave them the benefit of the doubt and also i suspect illogically because of a dislike for the bush administration.

in any event, that all changed when i saw your debate with the loose change kids on hardfire. it was like it woke me up from a nonsensical dream or something and i immediately realized how ridiculous it was for me to have agreed with what was presented in that "documentary". since then i've tried to educate myself a lot on this subject so that i can debate the conspiracy theorists and try to make them realize how wrong their views on september 11th are or at least so that i can offer a voice of reason to people who are hearing about it for the first time.

again, i just wanted to thank you personally for helping me realize the errors of my ways, and to thank you in general for all of the work you're doing.
Sorry I missed this post last month, Alex, and thanks!

Gravy,

I've got to ask you about your binder. Do you have other stuff on other subjects in it or is it just a 9/11 conspiracy binder?
It's just 9/11 stuff and recipes. I use different binders for tour guiding, mostly with old photos.
 
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