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Gravy. Gentleman and hero

chillzero

Penultimate Amazing
chillzero
Joined
Dec 11, 2002
Messages
15,547
OK, I have finally composed myself after watching a few Ground Zero clips.

Until recently I had a mental image of Ground Zero as a quiet place of reflection, where people come to pay their respects to the lives lost there, regardless of their beliefs about the day itself. I'm not American, and I didn't lose anybody that day, or since then in the war. I have no personal connection to the events of 911, other than as a global citizen. I would like to visit Ground Zero one day, just to try and get my head around the size of the place, and what the area there is like (I've never been in a city other than London and Edinburgh - no real comparison, I'm told).

I watched Gravy deal with the CTists, and then I wept watching Paul Isaac Jr try to talk to them. I completely agree with Mr Isaac - that is not the place to raise debate and argue with people about what happened. How disrespectful.

If I was at Ground Zero, and a fire fighter overheard me .... let's say ... humming to myself, and asked me to stop because he found that disrespectful, I would stop immediately, and apologise. Who the hell do they think they are to start an arguement with this guy?

I was highly impressed with how Gravy stood respectfully aside, unless asked for information, or provoked by the CTists. I am absolutely appalled at these other idiots who stand in front of people who were there and tell them they are wrong. I am outraged that they would even consider intruding on the grief of these people, or the thoughts of people like myself who would go to pay respects.

There were terrible news stories a few months back about people invading the funerals of soldiers to protest the war. This is just as despicable. There are times and places.

Gravy, I wanted to raise this thread to acknowledge your efforts. I respect the time you have put into getting all this information, and I applaud your approach in fighting the ignorance (in all forms of the word) of these morons. You deserve a medal for being the one who works so hard on defending the memories of those who died.

I also wanted to find out if there is anything practical us mere mortals can do to assist? Do you have a paypal account for contributions toward funding your travel, your research, your website, anything? Are there things that the rest of us can help you document or research? I think you should let us know if we can help you fight the good fight.

I am hugely impressed by what you do, and inspired. I feel quite useless, however because I wouldn't know where to start.
 
Thank you very much, chill. I'm occasionally a gentleman at Ground Zero, and sometimes I'm a pit bull (in fact I grew up with bulldogs), but hero is a word that needs to be used carefully in that context because so many real heroes died there.

So I appreciate the sentiment, but there's nothing heroic about anything I do. I'm just a guy who's pissed off at people who lie about 9/11, who absolve the terrorists of blame, and who make spurious accusations.

No, I don't plan to accept money for my expenses. There are many 9/11-related charities where that would be better spent. In fact, since your username is so much like "shill," I'm afraid I must dissolve our association. :(

:D
 
Gravy,
I meant no offense, but I understand what you mean about the word 'hero'. I see the fight against ignorance as heroic too, in the manner you are tackling it. I wish to take nothing away from the fallen and surviving heroes of that day.

I don't think you should dismiss what you do as 'just' anything, though. You have an impact. You have guts, and you have respect.

Keep up the good work. You have my moral support, anyway. I wish there were no need for men like you, but sadly, that's how the world is.

I hope to shake your hand some day.
 
I would second the title of this thread.

I have watched ALOT of the GZ videos, and I think to most rational, sane people, it is quite clear who the real gentleman down there is...Gravy. Does he get in the face of the CTers when they start spueing their claims, you bet, and i would to. If these guys are gonna shout out their false accusations, and mock and disrespect the site of 3000 murders, then by god, then someone has got to be there to keep them in check. Gravy does that...as best he can.

It infuriates me to hear people like Lyte and S4S claim that Mark tries to stop "patriots" from exercising their rights. These ignorant, obnoxious 20 somethings with their axe to grind against authority are the furthest thing I could imagine from PATRIOTS. They would love to see their country come down in a bloody revolution if they thought they could be a part of it...from behind the safety of a computer.

My only fear, is the fatigue that must be taking its toll on Mark. He has hinted in a few of his posts that the trips to GZ may be coming to an end, and if noone is there to replace him, I cringe to think the unchecked crap the morons will spue down there in the months and years to come. Knowing what little I do of Mark, through his words and actions, he will fight tooth and nail to the bitter end to get the REAL TRUTH out their, but one man can only do so much, for so long. Maybe by then another NYC JREFer will pick up the torch and carry on...who knows.

TAM
 
I live in the USA, and my life was touched by 9/11, both positively (I met my wife that day) and negatively (I lost a close friend in the North Tower).

I would just like to echo Chill's thoughts. Gravy is fighting the good fight against woo for my friend Alicia, and for me, and for all of those whose lives were touched by the horror of that day. He's an irresistible force for the REAL truth of 9/11, and I'm ever grateful for that.

Gravy, if you wouldn't mind designating a 9/11 charity you feel worthy, I've got $50 I'd like to donate in your name, and I imagine there may be others here who feel that way. Just say the word.
 
I concur with the sentiments of this post. Today was my first post at JREF. I came here largely due to what I've heard about Gravy (mostly from TAM at conspiracy smashers blog).

Below is my first post at JREF, which is located on the new member welcome board.


Hello,

My name is Marcus and I just wanted to introduce myself. My main reason for coming here is to witness GRAVY and others dismantle the "members" of the 9/11 troof movement. I've ghosted around for the past few days ... reading, laughing and learning ...and so far this site lives up to its reputation. I feel honored and privileged to be welcome here. I promise to try to keep my wits about me when interacting with troofers...though oftentimes it's nearly impossible. I live and work in Madison, Wisconsin and feel very lucky to be a part of such a dynamic culture of aware citizens. Being a member here is icing on the cake.

Warmest regards,
Marcus

P.S. - So far, watching GRAVY at work has been most inspiring.
 
Welcome Hyjinx:

Glad to see you come over here. The Blogs are great, don't get me wrong, but my favorite hang out, in terms of debate and banter, has to be JREF.

TAM
 
I would hope to meet him some day and shake his hand. I have been to GZ several times since the attack after the clean up.. Living in New Jersey all my 51 years the towers and those people in them had special meaning to me. I am only about 50 mins from GZ yet it took me a full year and a half just to acknowledge in my heart that they were gone. In my many travels up the turnpikes western extension there were times I could barely look eastward to the void. I shared their magnificence in person with my son when they existed. his grandfather a port authority engineer. him having to witness the destruction of something so great that his own grandfather had a small part in its creation was like a loss of innocence.
smith1.jpg
 
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I too wish to shake the hand of Mark Roberts.

Thanks for all the work Mark, you are a TRUE patriot.
 
This thread was a great idea and I also want to send thanks and support to Gravy for all the hard work and compassion that he's put into fighting these irrational and utterly disrespectful people.

I didn't lose anyone that day either but I don't think you have to in order to understand the, for lack of a better term, holiness of Ground Zero and the respect that the victims and their families deserve.
 
I would hope to meet him some day and shake his hand. I have been to GZ several times since the attack after the clean up.. Living in New Jersey all my 51 years the towers and those people in them had special meaning to me. I am only about 50 mins from GZ yet it took me a full year and a half just to acknowledge in my heart that they were gone. In my many travels up the turnpikes western extension there were times I could barely look eastward to the void. I shared their magnificence in person with my son when they existed. his grandfather a port authority engineer. him having to witness the destruction of something so great that his own grandfather had a small part in its creation was like a loss of innocence.


Live only few miles west of GZ site - witnessed buildings burn and collapse
on 9/11. From where I live could see the Towers from break in the trees
on ridge where I live Remember coming up hill at sunset to see the towers
shimmering with rainbow of colors - red, yellow, orange, purple as last rays
of sun reflected off the windows. When in NY visit site, go to "TEN HOUSE"
(quarters of ENG 10/LAD 10) to see bronze sculpture on wall of firehouse
depicting 9 11.
 
Thanks chillzero, for this thread, and for the very eloquent post on the activities of Big Mark.

I got to his stuff through the 911myths site, a reference site I use in my own pitched battle (message boards only) attempting to dissuade people from being misled so maliciously by the selfish conspiracy theorists.

Mark is absolutely terrific in his actions. And sticking it to Alex Jones, using nothing but logic and a passion for truth? That's really awesome.

I didn't know anyone who died on that day at Ground Zero. But 4 months before it was hit, my then-wife and I were on top of the South Tower, snapping one tourist picture after another of the tremendous view that vantage point afforded us. It's creepy for us to review those pictures today - especially the ones of the big radio tower on WTC 1.

Mark, if you could kindly name an organization or charity to which us ACTUAL truth lovers could donate, I'd be most grateful.
 
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Maybe Mark Roberts/Gravy would like to go out for a beer if you you live in NYC area. I would love to sit down and have anti 9/11 denial bar hopping session. We can probably get Abby Scott too.
 
We need a new word.

Before 9/11, there were "heroes" on sports teams, in comic books, in grade-school essays, and who knows how many other places...

On 9/11, there were people who ran up staircases while hundreds of others ran down. There were people who helped others flee when they could have run away. There were people who died trying to save people they had never met. "Hero", as we used it before, was suddenly too weak a word. We could re-define it, maybe, and say (as I heard some say) "we will never again call baseball players heroes...", or we could say that what we witnessed on 9/11 went beyond the words we normally use.

After 9/11... well, I have heard sportscasters use the term "hero" to refer to athletes again. Honestly, it made me cringe a bit.

So... we need a new word. One way or another.

Either the people we saw on 9/11 are the real heroes, and we need a new word for people like Gravy...

or...

Gravy is indeed a hero...but we need a new word for what we saw on 9/11. Something way beyond "heroic".

:boxedin:
 
Mercutio said:
real heroes, and we need a new word for people like Gravy...
Click to expand...

Grinder? Hoagy? Po'boy? Submarine?

Hero is judged best in retrospect, not spur of the moment.

That said - Gravy's got the right stuff. Proud to say I've met him.
 
what is the deal with ground zero recently, i have been there a couple of times but there werent any loosers, is this like a big problem, is it only on special days that they come out to mock the dead?
 
Karl Johannes said:
what is the deal with ground zero recently, i have been there a couple of times but there werent any loosers, is this like a big problem, is it only on special days that they come out to mock the dead?
Click to expand...
Saturdays I believe.
 
I just read this post, and simply would like to express admiration for Gravy (and Kate) for confronting those (I'm not so good is swearing, especially in English) "guys" !
 
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