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Grand River museum

I'll_buy_that

Critical Thinker
Joined
Oct 16, 2002
Messages
386
I would like to begin a discussion about their
"creation science" page.


"Recent finds of Egyptian chariot wheels by the Red Sea and stone tablets with "Pontius Pilate's" name on them, helped to legitimize the stories of the Exodus and the Crucifixion."

I don't think the existence of Romans and Pilate were ever in question. Their existence is historical. so what are they trying to say here?


"Many scientists are accepting this new trend for its answers to the questions of an outdated nineteenth century "evolution" theory." really ? :hit:

I would like to hear from both sides on this.
 
Creation Science has it's roots in the literal interpretation of the Bible

That's refreshing. Most IDers vehemently deny that they're trying to pass off religion as science.
 
I disagree with Mr Randi on this item. (I'm sure that will keep him up late :) ).

The 501(c)(3) category of tax exempt is the same one churches use. It does not imply anyone's tax dollars are going to the organization. 'Publicly funded' merely means donations from the public.

I agree it annoying to see the word 'museum' to promote creationism, but we have a local bar in town known as the 'Museum Club'. There is a certain poetic justice knowing a traveler can drop by with their family looking for a good creationist lesson, and finding a cowboy bar instead... :D

Perhaps the 'museum' could be accused of distributing propaganda, but at least they are limited in what they can do to support political candidates. A proper role for a skeptic would be to make sure the 'museum' is adhering to their tax exempt charter & rules to the letter.

(And their awful article on Sitting Bull angers me more than the creationism drivel).

Below is the 501 c3 description. It was recently revised but I can't see any difference except it is now in pdf and looks pretty. Text below from a cached html version.
(Updated version: 501 3c PDF
To be tax-exempt as an organization described in IRC Section 501(c)(3) of the Code, an organization must be organized and operated exclusively for one or more of the purposes set forth in IRC Section 501(c)(3) and none of the earnings of the organization may inure to any private shareholder or individual. In addition, it may not attempt to influence legislation as a substantial part of its activities and it may not participate at all in campaign activity for or against political candidates.
The organizations described in IRC Section 501(c)(3) are commonly referred to under the general heading of "charitable organizations." Organizations described in IRC Section 501(c)(3), other than testing for public safety organizations, are eligible to receive tax-deductible contributions in accordance with IRC Section 170.
<span style="background-color: #ffff99">The exempt purposes set forth in IRC Section 501(c)(3) are charitable, religious, educational, scientific, literary, testing for public safety, fostering national or international amateur sports competition, and the prevention of cruelty to children or animals. The term charitable is used in its generally accepted legal sense and includes relief of the poor, the distressed, or the underprivileged; advancement of religion; advancement of education or science; erection or maintenance of public buildings, monuments, or works; lessening the burdens of government; lessening of neighborhood tensions; elimination of prejudice and discrimination; defense of human and civil rights secured by law; and combating community deterioration and juvenile delinquency.</span>
To be organized exclusively for a charitable purpose, the organization must be a corporation, community chest, fund, or foundation. A charitable trust is a fund or foundation and will qualify. However, an individual or a partnership will not qualify. The articles of organization must limit the organization's purposes to one or more of the exempt purposes set forth in IRC Section 501(c)(3) and must not expressly empower it to engage, other than as an insubstantial part of its activities, in activities that are not in furtherance of one or more of those purposes. This requirement may be met if the purposes stated in the articles of organization are limited in some way by reference to IRC Section 501(c)(3). In addition, assets of an organization must be permanently dedicated to an exempt purpose. This means that should an organization dissolve, its assets must be distributed for an exempt purpose described in this chapter, or to the federal government or to a state or local government for a public purpose. To establish that an organization's assets will be permanently dedicated to an exempt purpose, the articles of organization should contain a provision insuring their distribution for an exempt purpose in the event of dissolution. Although reliance may be placed upon state law to establish permanent dedication of assets for exempt purposes, an organization's application can be processed by the IRS more rapidly if its articles of organization include a provision insuring permanent dedication of assets for exempt purposes. For examples of provisions that meet these requirements, download Publication 557, Tax-Exempt Status for Your Organization.
An organization will be regarded as "operated exclusively" for one or more exempt purposes only if it engages primarily in activities which accomplish one or more of the exempt purposes specified in IRC Section 501(c)(3). An organization will not be so regarded if more than an insubstantial part of its activities is not in furtherance of an exempt purpose. For more information concerning types of charitable organizations and their activities, download Publication 557.
The organization must not be organized or operated for the benefit of private interests, such as the creator or the creator's family, shareholders of the organization, other designated individuals, or persons controlled directly or indirectly by such private interests. No part of the net earnings of an IRC Section 501(c)(3) organization may inure to the benefit of any private shareholder or individual. A private shareholder or individual is a person having a personal and private interest in the activities of the organization. If the organization engages in an excess benefit transaction with a person having substantial influence over the organization, an excise tax may be imposed on the person and any managers agreeing to the transaction.
An IRC Section 501(c)(3) organization may not engage in carrying on propaganda, or otherwise attempting, to influence legislation as a substantial part of its activities. Whether an organization has attempted to influence legislation as a substantial part of its activities is determined based upon all relevant facts and circumstances. However, most IRC Section 501(c)(3) organizations may use Form 5768, Election/Revocation of Election by an Eligible Section 501(c)(3) Organization to Make Expenditures to Influence Legislation, to make an election under IRC Section 501(h) to be subject to an objectively measured expenditure test with respect to lobbying activities rather than the less precise "substantial activity" test. Electing organizations are subject to tax on lobbying activities that exceed a specified percentage of their exempt function expenditures. For further information regarding lobbying activities by charities, download Lobbying Issues.
For purposes of IRC Section 501(c)(3), legislative activities and political activities are two different things, and are subject to two different sets of rules. The latter is an absolute bar. An IRC Section 501(c)(3) organization may not participate in, or intervene in (including the publishing or distributing of statements), any political campaign on behalf of (or in opposition to) any candidate for public office. Whether an organization is engaging in prohibited political campaign activity depends upon all the facts and circumstances in each case. For example, organizations may sponsor debates or forums to educate voters. But if the forum or debate shows a preference for or against a certain candidate, it becomes a prohibited activity. The motivation of an organization is not relevant in determining whether the political campaign prohibition has been violated. Activities that encourage people to vote for or against a particular candidate, even on the basis of non-partisan criteria, violate the political campaign prohibition of IRC Section 501(c)(3). See the FY-2002 CPE topic entitled Election Year Issues for further information regarding political activities of charities.

Yeah, more to play devil's advocate than anything else...
 
The author of the website seems to be getting his Biblical Archeology from the late Ron Wyatt. This man made a living out of lectures and selling videos where he claimed to have discovered everything from Noah's Ark to a secret stash of gold that Moses and his people stole off of the Egyptions. His bogus discoveries were debunked time and again by actual archeologists, and the only evidence ever presented was proven faked or seriously twisted in presentation. A google search about this man should tell you all you need to know.
Jerry
 
This Ron Wyatt discovered, Noahs Ark, the ark of the covenant, Sodom and Gamorrah, Jesus' crucifixion site, Moses' Exodus site.

WOW! Gee, why isn't he more famous?

doing a Google search turns up a lot of support for him. you'd think we would have a lot more proof by now instead of conjecture.


I guess people will always believe what they want to believe. And I'm sure many will read the defense of "Creationist science" on the web site and claim that its proof positive and ignore the Hubble telescope's views of stars that are billions of years old.
 
The first Apple computer was sold for $666.66
:D
666

I like to point out the other number of the beast is 616. This adds credence to the simple claim that the beast was supposed to be Nero. (Hence little known).
 
Send them all the same stuff that you might send to Kent Hovind. I also note they reference and recommend the Institute of Creationist Research.

Obviously the place is run fundie fanatics. All their "Creation Science" page is if's, but's, would-be's, could-be's, ANYTHING that they can get their hands on from the John Morris school of raving lunacy.

My view: Hardly worth the effort of discussion. What a waste of good fossils.
 

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