Government to the rescue?

[PopeTom]

http://www.foxnews.com/printer_friendly_story/0,3566,215983,00.html

NEW YORK — Three years after the city banned smoking in restaurants, health officials are talking about prohibiting something they say is almost as bad: artificial trans fatty acids.

The city health department unveiled a proposal Tuesday that would bar cooks at any of the city's 24,600 food service establishments from using ingredients that contain the artery-clogging substance, commonly listed on food labels as partially hydrogenated oil.

Personally I think this is an example of a governing body over stepping it's bounds and inflicting itself too much on a person's choice. Even if that choice may be a bad one.

I happen to like the idea that freedom includes the freedom to make bad decisions, and how once approaches their own heath and diet is that person's, not the governments, choice to make.

Anyone from NYC think their city's governing body is making the right decision in attempting to ban trans fatty acids?

 

[Mephisto]

Not to toot my own horn, but here is a somewhat related thread.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=64757

I go along with you 100% regarding government intrusiveness. I would just be happy if they would do the job they're SUPPOSED to do to ensure a safe (i.e. not poisonous) food supply.

Welcome to the forum too.

 

[Darat]

http://www.foxnews.com/printer_friendly_story/0,3566,215983,00.html



Personally I think this is an example of a governing body over stepping it's bounds and inflicting itself too much on a person's choice. Even if that choice may be a bad one.

I happen to like the idea that freedom includes the freedom to make bad decisions, and how once approaches their own heath and diet is that person's, not the governments, choice to make.

Anyone from NYC think their city's governing body is making the right decision in attempting to ban trans fatty acids?

I think it is wrong for the government to take this type of action -after all trans fats aren't poisonous.

However I would think it was OK for the government to ensure that restaurants etc. should have to, if asked provide honest answers to questions regarding what is in the food they serve.

 

[ponderingturtle]

http://www.foxnews.com/printer_friendly_story/0,3566,215983,00.html



Personally I think this is an example of a governing body over stepping it's bounds and inflicting itself too much on a person's choice. Even if that choice may be a bad one.

I happen to like the idea that freedom includes the freedom to make bad decisions, and how once approaches their own heath and diet is that person's, not the governments, choice to make.

Anyone from NYC think their city's governing body is making the right decision in attempting to ban trans fatty acids?

So when does health codes forcing say certain practices cross this line? It is a practice that can make you sick, just like poor sanitary practices can make you sick, and where are the people saying that is the government oversteping its bounds?

 

[Cylinder]

Anyone from NYC think their city's governing body is making the right decision in attempting to ban trans fatty acids?

I really want to answer this question but I'm not from New York. No matter, since the Preventing Hypertension Act prohibits me from exchanging opinions in public places that "may tend to cause anger or excitability in readers."

 

[PopeTom]

I think it is wrong for the government to take this type of action -after all trans fats aren't poisonous.

However I would think it was OK for the government to ensure that restaurants etc. should have to, if asked provide honest answers to questions regarding what is in the food they serve.

I don't see a problem with the government ensuring that the consumer is capable of making an informed choice.

But if after getting all relevant information the consumer decides to still make what many consider to be a bad choice he/she should be able to do so.

 

[Darat]

So when does health codes forcing say certain practices cross this line? It is a practice that can make you sick, just like poor sanitary practices can make you sick, and where are the people saying that is the government oversteping its bounds?

Isn't it the line between "unhealthy" and being dangerous to your health?

Eating a portion of fries cooked in a fat high in trans fats is unhealthy so doesn't require government "interference" but eating egg mayonnaise kept uncovered at room temperature for 3 days is dangerous to your health so does require government "interference".

 

[Mephisto]

So when does health codes forcing say certain practices cross this line? It is a practice that can make you sick, just like poor sanitary practices can make you sick, and where are the people saying that is the government oversteping its bounds?

Health codes and dietary restrictions are two different things, ponderingturtle. What if the government came out and said, "okay, no more McDonald's if you weigh over 200lbs., no more pizza unless you can pump off 50 situps when you order, and sugar is illegal?

 

[Katana]

So when does health codes forcing say certain practices cross this line? It is a practice that can make you sick, just like poor sanitary practices can make you sick, and where are the people saying that is the government oversteping its bounds?

Because it is only in excess and over time that consuming trans fats causes harm.


If the government bans trans fats, why not outlaw all fastfood chains (hmm, not a bad idea actually), liquor stores, tobacco, and anything that produces smog since theoretically they could all make us sick?

 

[ponderingturtle]

Isn't it the line between "unhealthy" and being dangerous to your health?

Eating a portion of fries cooked in a fat high in trans fats is unhealthy so doesn't require government "interference" but eating egg mayonnaise kept uncovered at room temperature for 3 days is dangerous to your health so does require government "interference".

Mabey. Personaly I don't agree with it, but I see where the authority is coming from. It is being made part of health code, and people here seem to feel that any imposition on business by a health inspection is entirely out of line.

It is based on the same powers that say you can not sell raw milk cheeses aged less than 60 days, that they need to wash dishes under certain conditions and so forth.

Many of these parts of health code make alot of sense, and most people here are probably in favor of them.

 

[PopeTom]

So when does health codes forcing say certain practices cross this line? It is a practice that can make you sick, just like poor sanitary practices can make you sick, and where are the people saying that is the government oversteping its bounds?

When it effects personal choice of the consumer.
I believe there is enough information out there about the potential negative health effects of trans fatty acids that anyone concerned could ask a restaurant they eat at how the food is prepared. Then they could request that some other method be used if they feel the standard way is unhealthy, or switch restaurants if an alternative is not offered.

 

[ponderingturtle]

Health codes and dietary restrictions are two different things, ponderingturtle. What if the government came out and said, "okay, no more McDonald's if you weigh over 200lbs., no more pizza unless you can pump off 50 situps when you order, and sugar is illegal?

So why is it fine to say I can not buy Raw Milk cheeses less than 60 days old but wrong to say that resturants can not cook with transfats? WHy are transfats a nessacary part of what they are makeing?

 

[ponderingturtle]

Because it is only in excess and over time that consuming trans fats causes harm.


If the government bans trans fats, why not outlaw all fastfood chains (hmm, not a bad idea actually), liquor stores, tobacco, and anything that produces smog since theoretically they could all make us sick?

It is only a ban on resturants useing transfats, snack food is not effected as is personal use. So how is this so different from banning smoking in resturants? Minimal exposure to that enviroment has about the same health effects as the transfats.

 

[ponderingturtle]

When it effects personal choice of the consumer.
I believe there is enough information out there about the potential negative health effects of trans fatty acids that anyone concerned could ask a restaurant they eat at how the food is prepared. Then they could request that some other method be used if they feel the standard way is unhealthy, or switch restaurants if an alternative is not offered.

So what parts of the established health code do you also have a problem with, as some of it certainly does that.

 

[Cylinder]

So why is it fine to say I can not buy Raw Milk cheeses less than 60 days old but wrong to say that resturants can not cook with transfats? WHy are transfats a nessacary part of what they are makeing?

The difference is that the former si not considered to be safe food at any reasonable level of exposure. The latter is not unsafe until it is eaten over time and usually in conjunction with poor choices regarding personal fitness.

 

[PopeTom]

Mabey. Personaly I don't agree with it, but I see where the authority is coming from. It is being made part of health code, and people here seem to feel that any imposition on business by a health inspection is entirely out of line.

It is based on the same powers that say you can not sell raw milk cheeses aged less than 60 days, that they need to wash dishes under certain conditions and so forth.

Many of these parts of health code make a lot of sense, and most people here are probably in favor of them.

Drinking raw milk, or improperly cleaning work surfaces, or having a kitchen full of rat droppings can, more then likely, make you sick right now, more or less.

Consuming trans fatty acid may or may not make you sick some point in the future. Plus you could possibly lessen/eliminate those possible effects with moderation and/or exercise.

If I could work of salmonella poisoning with 20 minutes a day on a treadmill then it might be OK if a restaurant went from cutting up a chicken to cutting up vegetables without properly cleaning tools and work surfaces.

 

[ponderingturtle]

The difference is that the former si not considered to be safe food at any reasonable level of exposure. The latter is not unsafe until it is eaten over time and usually in conjunction with poor choices regarding personal fitness.

And that is crap, because the former is mostly safe, it just carries a small risk to some people. Remember about all the cheese deaths you hear about from canada?

 

[Mephisto]

So why is it fine to say I can not buy Raw Milk cheeses less than 60 days old but wrong to say that resturants can not cook with transfats? WHy are transfats a nessacary part of what they are makeing?

Frankly, I don't have much of a problem with it myself - Americans are too unhealthy. The government keeping us "healthy," however, does seem a moot point considering that 9,000 people a year die from food poisoning and several recently got ill because of e coli.

I also don't have a problem with people who want to kill themselves a little at a time, so I have no problem with people wanting to ingest as much trans-fat, saturated fat, cigarette smoke, or anything else.

As with everything else in America - it should be one's choice, no?

 

[ponderingturtle]

Frankly, I don't have much of a problem with it myself - Americans are too unhealthy. The government keeping us "healthy," however, does seem a moot point considering that 9,000 people a year die from food poisoning and several recently got ill because of e coli.

I also don't have a problem with people who want to kill themselves a little at a time, so I have no problem with people wanting to ingest as much trans-fat, saturated fat, cigarette smoke, or anything else.

As with everything else in America - it should be one's choice, no?

So in other words you have problems with a great many laws becides this one?

 

[Mephisto]

It is being made part of health code, and people here seem to feel that any imposition on business by a health inspection is entirely out of line.

Well before you eat in THOSE restraurants, maybe you should make sure there are no puppy heads in the dumpster.