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Gordon Brown "bigot" silliness

quixotecoyote

Howling to glory I go
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/election_2010/8649448.stm

Prime Minister Gordon Brown has apologised after he was caught on microphone describing a voter he had spoken to in Rochdale as a "bigoted woman"....
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Of course the woman in question was blaming the economic problems on Eastern Europeans lying to get on welfare and depriving the deserving of benefits.

GD: But there's too many people now who aren't vulnerable but they can claim and people who are vulnerable can't get claim, can't get it.


...


GD: You can't say anything about the immigrants because you're saying that you're... all these Eastern Europeans what are coming in, where are they flocking from?
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So yeah. I think he should get props for recognizing bigotry when he sees it, not criticism for calling it what it is.
 
I wonder what would have happened if rather than apologizing for it, the statement was something like:

"I never meant to insult Miss Duffy publicly and hope I have not caused her any shame, but blaming this nation's problems on Eastern European immigrants is not something I can endorse, and calling that prejudicial attitude 'bigotry' is not something I can apologize for."
 
quixotecoyote said:
I wonder what would have happened if rather than apologizing for it, the statement was something like:

"I never meant to insult Miss Duffy publicly and hope I have not caused her any shame, but blaming this nation's problems on Eastern European immigrants is not something I can endorse, and calling that prejudicial attitude 'bigotry' is not something I can apologize for."
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I personally agree, but you can imagine what the Sun would do with a statement like that.
 
I have no idea. I'm not familiar with the overall environment in the UK at all, which is one of the reasons to post here and see if those who were thought the apology was necessary to appease anti-Eastern European sentiment or if it was as craven as it looked to me.
 
quixotecoyote said:
I wonder what would have happened if rather than apologizing for it, the statement was something like:

"I never meant to insult Miss Duffy publicly and hope I have not caused her any shame, but blaming this nation's problems on Eastern European immigrants is not something I can endorse, and calling that prejudicial attitude 'bigotry' is not something I can apologize for."
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I really wish he had done this. I am sick of this pathetic ignorant lazy bigotry in this country, people blaming everyone else for their own laziness and lack of effort.

The woman IS a bigot - why can we not have a party which is clearly anti-bigotry?

Why should a politician in this day and age have to apologise to an ignorant racist for HER shortcomings?

I'm really sick of this mindless anti- Eastern European sentiment at the moment. It makes me really uncomfortable.

I won't post any further or I'll end up Godwinning myself.
 
I don't think the reason he had to apologise was to appease anti Eastern European bigots, but because he insulted a little old lady behind her back.

The woman is a bigoted old bat, but the way to address that is to engage her and argue against her point, not smile, ask her about her grandkids and say 'vote Labour' then get in your Prime Ministerial car and mutter 'racist old tart' under your breath.
 
Guybrush Threepwood said:
The woman is a bigoted old bat, but the way to address that is to engage her and argue against her point, not smile, ask her about her grandkids and say 'vote Labour' then get in your Prime Ministerial car and mutter 'racist old tart' under your breath.
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Well yes, and I think that's why he referred to it as a "a disaster" when he got into the car - he couldn't really get into a argument with her over the issue under those circumstances. She'd been pulled to the front because she had a quick question about the economy that would present a nice little bite for the news before he climbed into the Brownmobile and away; but then she started ranting on about how the filthy immigrants were turning the area into a Third World country and living in luxury accomodation on benefits while Brave Ordinary Britons froze in their tenements etc etc.

Of course calling it a disaster at that point was probably overstating it; it became one shortly afterwards unfortunately.

I wonder if it will have a lasting effect? I fear it might; immigration is a hot topic for a lot of people and they don't like to have their views minimised.

All the same when challenged I'd have liked to see him damn the press's eyes and call her a bigot again.
 
I think it's a lot more complex than you're making it out to be. I didn't hear the actual recordings until yesterday evening, but I thought it was quite bad for Brown.

I didn't see the woman as ranting. Yes, she was showing resentment against immigrants, and if that's bigoted, then she's bigoted. But she wasn't foaming at the mouth, she simply chose to voice a matter she was concerned about to the leader of the party she had supported all her life. She didn't even press the point when she got the stock PC answer. I don't imagine she's very bright, and her point of view isn't all that uncommon, these are the sort of people who make up the electorate, like it or not. These are the sort of people Brown should expect to deal with and should be able to handle.

Yes, he insulted her. She doesn't see her concerns as being "bigoted", and she was shocked to hear Brown denigrate her in that way. He fell into an elephant trap he should have been drilled to avoid in his sleep, talking on an open microphone.

But it was more than that. He was complaining that the encounter was badly stage-managed. That woman should never have been put in front of him. He, the great PM, should not have been required to handle a question like that, or a voter with those sorts of views and concerns. This is not good, if you want to portray yourself as open and approachable and in touch with the people.

Also, he was blaming. Who was responsible for this? Who did this to me? He wasn't shouting or throwing things, but he was confrontational and accusatory.

He also completely misjudged the encounter. It wasn't a disaster at all, as it originally played out - not until he made it one. So, he sees an encounter with a non-PC party supporter as "a disaster" in principle, even if it's well handled. He should never had been required to come face to face with such a person.

Sweet, Gordon.

Rolfe.
 
Has the actual condition of the neighborhood changed as a result of immigration?

For example, is there more litter on the streets than before or more urban blight?

Do immigrants collect welfare at higher rates than natives?

IOW, is there an actual quality-of-life basis for objecting to immigration?
 
quixotecoyote said:
I wonder what would have happened if rather than apologizing for it, the statement was something like:

"I never meant to insult Miss Duffy publicly and hope I have not caused her any shame, but blaming this nation's problems on Eastern European immigrants is not something I can endorse, and calling that prejudicial attitude 'bigotry' is not something I can apologize for."
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Agreed.
 
Guybrush Threepwood said:
I don't think the reason he had to apologise was to appease anti Eastern European bigots, but because he insulted a little old lady behind her back.

The woman is a bigoted old bat, but the way to address that is to engage her and argue against her point, not smile, ask her about her grandkids and say 'vote Labour' then get in your Prime Ministerial car and mutter 'racist old tart' under your breath.
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Or if you do, make sure your mike is off. ;)

Does anyone really believe that politicians aren't usually like this behind closed doors when they are in private?
 
Rolfe said:
But it was more than that. He was complaining that the encounter was badly stage-managed. That woman should never have been put in front of him. He, the great PM, should not have been required to handle a question like that, or a voter with those sorts of views and concerns. This is not good, if you want to portray yourself as open and approachable and in touch with the people.

Also, he was blaming. Who was responsible for this? Who did this to me? He wasn't shouting or throwing things, but he was confrontational and accusatory.

He also completely misjudged the encounter. It wasn't a disaster at all, as it originally played out - not until he made it one. So, he sees an encounter with a non-PC party supporter as "a disaster" in principle, even if it's well handled. He should never had been required to come face to face with such a person.

Sweet, Gordon.

Rolfe.
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Very good point. Even if you think she's bigoted, he still comes off badly for the reasons you state.
 
richardm said:
Bigots usually don't.
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Exactly. She's not out on left field, there are plenty voters with similar views. This is an election campaign. Brown should have more sense than to alienate a voter by insulting her like this.

Oh yes, he thought the mike was off. Well it wasn't. Hey, who knew that could happen? Come on, he should have been drilled to avoid that ni his sleep.

Rolfe.
 
Puppycow said:
Or if you do, make sure your mike is off. ;)

Does anyone really believe that politicians aren't usually like this behind closed doors when they are in private?
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I think that is why a lot of the politicians are not knifing Brown over this - I am sure they are now all wondering if some journalist has a recording of some of their "off mic" comments.
 
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Well, if The Thick Of It is any guide, that ain't nothing. It's still a horrible gaffe to have said it in public though.

Rolfe.
 
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