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Good information on Emotional Intelligence?

Londinius

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Joined
Jun 3, 2005
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52
Hello,

I'm currently doing a study on Emotional Intelligence (EI or EQ or whatever) but I have little knowledge about the idea. I am also quite skeptical to the idea that the methods and tests used in EQ actually works (such as NLP which has not been proven scientifically).

I would like to look for credible sources (online articles or books) that discuss on emotional intelligence, preferably from a skeptic's point of view. Does anyone know of any good source of such topic?

Thanks.
 
Thanks for the reply.

Actually I had tried Googling using the keywords but nothing much credible information came up. What I am looking for are studies or criticisms regarding the methods and tests used in EI such as scientific evidence for topic like "whether EI can be improved or not".
 
:confused:

What does that mean?


I'm with you. Weird, eh?

The origin of the response might be that your post could be interpreted as a troll, but I think you're on the level. The reason it's mistaken for a troll is that EQ is sort of invented, and not well respected in psychology.

EQ is more something you see in an HR / occupational psychology setting, as part of a whole host of pseudopsychology.

My impression is that it was invented as a response to occupational IQ testing, in order to boost the self-image of people who get below-average IQ scores. EQ leads to a Lake Wobegone effect, where everybody's above average.

Having said that, there is some value to interpersonal skills in the workplace, and many of the EQ-boosting techniques are just social skills training with a fancy new label, and not a complete loss.


As it happens, Dr. Beyerstein is a founder of CSICOP and worked for years debunking many HR / occupational psychology trends. (eg: personality tests, handwriting analysis, polygraphs, and also EQ tests)

As it happens, even Mayer and Salovey believe that EQ probably correlates to IQ, and this is supported by years of prior findings showing that IQ scores are positively correlated with better social skills.
 
You might check out Tony Robbins stuff on NLP he seems to be the guru. I heard his personal power tape once, he claims that he completely cured a hreoine addict in five minutes. I thought he was just a cheerleader and didnt realize how woo NLP gets.
 
Hello again,

I am pretty much aware that those so called EQ (and NLP) are sort of pseudoscientific and that's the reason I am looking for critical analysis/review on the subject.

Has Dr. Beyerstein published any articles on EQ and personality test before? And where can I find them? I did a search at csicop.org but nothing related came up.

Thanks.
 
...EQ is sort of invented, and not well respected in psychology.

EQ is more something you see in an HR / occupational psychology setting, as part of a whole host of pseudopsychology.

My impression is that it was invented as a response to occupational IQ testing, in order to boost the self-image of people who get below-average IQ scores. EQ leads to a Lake Wobegone effect, where everybody's above average.
I'm surprised. What could be woo about having the ability to manage one's emotions well and interelate well with others? These type of skills obviously vary widely, and I think it would be interesting to be able to pinpoint exactly what part of the brain is responsible for those abilities, and/or to determine if or how much they can be improved and how.

Just call me very surprised, I didn't realize this was an area that was widely disrespected.

Londinius said:
Hello,

I'm currently doing a study on Emotional Intelligence (EI or EQ or whatever) but I have little knowledge about the idea. I am also quite skeptical to the idea that the methods and tests used in EQ actually works (such as NLP which has not been proven scientifically).

I would like to look for credible sources (online articles or books) that discuss on emotional intelligence, preferably from a skeptic's point of view. Does anyone know of any good source of such topic?
Have you looked at the book Emotional Intelligence by Daniel Goleman? It was written for the lay audience, but it has almost 30 pages of footnotes. (Yeah, I have a copy of the book. :p ) Perhaps your local library or bookstore has a copy, and you could see if any of the footnotes would point you towards a worthwhile double blinded study. You may also find what you need in the sources for Appendices D, E & F.
 
Hey Gravy, bring us up to date.
That was a joke about "emotional intelligence." Sorry for the confusion! :)

Also, I didn't realize that Londinius was so new. People are actually very nice around here, Londinius.
 
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I'm surprised. What could be woo about having the ability to manage one's emotions well and interelate well with others? These type of skills obviously vary widely, and I think it would be interesting to be able to pinpoint exactly what part of the brain is responsible for those abilities, and/or to determine if or how much they can be improved and how.

Totally legitemate fields of study.



Just call me very surprised, I didn't realize this was an area that was widely disrespected.

It's more the application that's fraudulent. It's an embryonic field of study. There's maybe, *maybe* twelve years of study, and not a lot is really confidently known. This has not stopped people from putting up a shingle and selling their consulting services to HR departments across the country.




Have you looked at the book Emotional Intelligence by Daniel Goleman? It was written for the lay audience, but it has almost 30 pages of footnotes. (Yeah, I have a copy of the book. :p ) Perhaps your local library or bookstore has a copy, and you could see if any of the footnotes would point you towards a worthwhile double blinded study. You may also find what you need in the sources for Appendices D, E & F.

Read it. Critiqued it. The book exhausts me in the same way that creation science books exhaust me. The references rarely support the claims being made when they're refd in the text. The authors of the references have mostly disowned Goleman and resent his misrepresentation of their works.

There's also a decade of bad blood between Mayer and Salovey who did real peer-reviewed research and opened the field of EI in 1992, versus Goleman who popularized a bastardized version of EI and EQ in a non-fiction book and made millions consulting with fourtune 500s.

I could itemize my key complaints, but in a nutshell, there is a difference between the legitemate academic fields of Emotional Awareness (established), Emotional Intelligence (embryonic), and Goleman's version of Emotional Intelligence (arguably fraud).
 
After doing some searches on the net I find that there is not definitive answer of what exactly is Emotional Intelligence. Each scholar seems to have their own definition for EI.

Also I'm not sure of it's practicality eg. emotional management and awareness methods will actually help reduce emotional pain like anger.

Have you looked at the book Emotional Intelligence by Daniel Goleman? It was written for the lay audience, but it has almost 30 pages of footnotes. (Yeah, I have a copy of the book. :p ) Perhaps your local library or bookstore has a copy, and you could see if any of the footnotes would point you towards a worthwhile double blinded study. You may also find what you need in the sources for Appendices D, E & F.

Thanks I will look into it. But I also have read a Critical Review of Daniel Goleman (www .eqi.org/gole.htm, I can't post URL at the moment) that discusses how he misled the public with the EI idea. I don't know whether it should be regarded as credible information.

That was a joke about "emotional intelligence." Sorry for the confusion! :)

Also, I didn't realize that Londinius was so new. People are actually very nice around here, Londinius.

That's ok. I know :)
 
I'm surprised. What could be woo about having the ability to manage one's emotions well and interelate well with others? These type of skills obviously vary widely...

People disagree on what, exactly, would constitute "emotional intelligence".

Here are some criteria I shamelessly yoinked from wikipedia (3 of 5 listed):

The capacity to manage one's emotional states — to control emotions or to shift undesirable emotional states to more adequate ones.
The ability to enter into emotional states (at will) associated with a drive to achieve and be successful.
The capacity to read, be sensitive to, and influence other people's emotions.

So um.... sociopaths have high emotional intelligence? They can control their emotions and shift them. They can indeed read emotions and influence them... in fact that's a hallmark of the disease! That contrasts with Goleman's assertion that EQ is associated with "success" in life.. which BEGS the question, what do you consider "success in life"?

How would you falsify the existance of EQ? Since people can't even agree on what it would be in the first place, I don't know how you would even begin to go about this. EQ is just not science.
 
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People disagree on what, exactly, would constitute "emotional intelligence".

Here are some criteria I shamelessly yoinked from wikipedia (3 of 5 listed):

The capacity to manage one's emotional states — to control emotions or to shift undesirable emotional states to more adequate ones.
The ability to enter into emotional states (at will) associated with a drive to achieve and be successful.
The capacity to read, be sensitive to, and influence other people's emotions.

So um.... sociopaths have high emotional intelligence? They can control their emotions and shift them. They can indeed read emotions and influence them... in fact that's a hallmark of the disease! That contrasts with Goleman's assertion that EQ is associated with "success" in life.. which BEGS the question, what do you consider "success in life"?

How would you falsify the existance of EQ? Since people can't even agree on what it would be in the first place, I don't know how you would even begin to go about this. EQ is just not science.

Ultimately, EI is an "applied/occupational" spinoff of emotional sensitivity, which is a legitemate field of psychology.

The debate isn't about whether EI or ES are scientific, since it's psychology we're dealing with here. As far as psychology goes, ES' legitemacy has been established in context of existing standards. (to answer Rustle's question: in psycholgy, "success" is the abiltiy to achieve individual life goals, and each patient self-evaluates against his own goals)

Occupational psychologists have understood the importance of emotional sensitivity in the workplace for decades, and there have been invoices developed to score people's ability. The ECI -360 is a ripoff of one of these, and it's not clear whether the minor differences test for anything new. Emotional Intelligence researchers don't use it.


Here's a critique in the critical thinking website:
Critical Thinking and Emotional Intelligence
 
The debate isn't about whether EI or ES are scientific, since it's psychology we're dealing with here.

Hrmm that's an interesting assertion: my psych proffs were actually pretty bitchy about being "real scientists" and doing "real science". Well, if it doesn't matter that it isn't science, let me ask: is there any use for it? Can it predict anything? If it can't, then why bother concocting such a theory anyway?

As far as psychology goes, ES' legitemacy has been established in context of existing standards. (to answer Rustle's question: in psycholgy, "success" is the abiltiy to achieve individual life goals, and each patient self-evaluates against his own goals)

Great. So in order to find out if someone is successful, you ask them whether or not they are successful. This is also how charlatans evaluate whether someone has Psychic Powers. You ask them whether or not they do. "Excuse me Miss, can you communicate with spirits? You have? Well then you should know that you are psychic! By the way, have you met your life goals? You have? You should know that you're successful, probably due to your high emotional intelligence!"

So if you're saying "there is as solid of research being done on EQ as there is on ESP", then I guess that I can't disagree with you.
 
Hrmm that's an interesting assertion: my psych proffs were actually pretty bitchy about being "real scientists" and doing "real science". Well, if it doesn't matter that it isn't science, let me ask: is there any use for it? Can it predict anything? If it can't, then why bother concocting such a theory anyway?

I'm having trouble answering the questions: What do you mean by "it"? Science? Psychology? Emotional IQ?

If you mean Psychology, yes, if it's predictive, it has value. To some extent, there's a semantic argument here: by 'science', most people mean 'natural science'. This can include a cross-disciplinary specialty called 'biopsychology' which is the study of how the brain works. This discipline works with the faculty of physiology and medicine to inform psychiatrists in their practice of medicine.

On the other hand, the faculty of Arts has a department of psychology, which is the study of the mind, and overlaps a bit with antrhopology, which is the study of people and organizational behavior. Also involved in the EQ debacle is the faculty of Commerce, which explores how businesses work.

I am unusual in that I have degrees from two faculties: Science and Arts. My arts degree is in psychology (family psych). While psychology does some experiments that are very aligned with those conducted in the natural sciences, such as running rats through mazes or confusing monkeys with wire moms, these are mostly confined to animal testing, and tend to find themselves in biopsych.

When it comes to humans, testing usually looks like a questionnaire, and the best they can do is argue that the survey tests the property they claim it does.

Confidence in a test's validity is improved when the test produces the same results in a subject when taken over and over, and if different testers use the test and get the same basic results.





Great. So in order to find out if someone is successful, you ask them whether or not they are successful. This is also how charlatans evaluate whether someone has Psychic Powers. You ask them whether or not they do. "Excuse me Miss, can you communicate with spirits? You have? Well then you should know that you are psychic! By the way, have you met your life goals? You have? You should know that you're successful, probably due to your high emotional intelligence!"

I think your analogy is inappropriate. I'm saying that the specific measurement of success used in this test, and many others, is asking a subject if they are successful according to their own criteria. This is close to a real-world definition, and why it is popular within the literature. Success is a cognitive factor, not a behavior.

There's an old joke about the difference between the cognitive versus behavioral in tests: after sex, a behaviorist says, "It was good for you; was it good for me?"




So if you're saying "there is as solid of research being done on EQ as there is on ESP", then I guess that I can't disagree with you.

I'm not sure I said that. In fact, I think I said the opposite: there is scant little research done on EQ. There is, however, a great deal of research done on emotional sensitivity.

Also: ESP claims to be a naturalistic property, and is a scientific field in the conventional sense, even though it is popular among psychologists, and the field is named parapsychology. Psi is independently verifiable by observations of objective observers. Psychology, on the other hand, is extremely contained within the mind of the subject, and at best, we can observe a subject's behaviors for independent verification, behaviors which are under control of the subject's mind.
 

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