God vs pain experiment

[Devious Dave UK]

http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/270898p-231812c.html

British researchers plan to torture hundreds of volunteers to see if faith in God eases pain.

The human guinea pigs will be shown religious symbols such as crucifixes and images of the Virgin Mary while their hands are burned with pads or chili gel.

"A lot of people when they are in severe pain do turn to different forms of faith," Toby Collins, deputy director of the new Oxford Center for Science of the Mind, told the London Telegraph.

Oxford University researchers will monitor the subjects' agony using brain scans to see if belief does them any good.

"We're very interested in the power of belief, the power of prayer, God concepts," said Pamela Thompson, vice president of the Pennsylvania-based John Templeton Foundation, which funds research on spiritual discovery and financed the center with $2 million.

"What we're looking at is how what goes on in the brain can affect pain," Thompson said.

The experiments will be conducted by a multidisciplinary team of scientists under strict ethical rules, researchers said. The pain might be inflicted by a 140-degree heat pad applied to the back of the hand, or by chili powder gel.

Scientists will seek to determine whether the religious imagery better distracts from pain than placebo pills, or thinking mundane thoughts. The experiment will be the first in a series for the center, which also will bring philosophers and neurologists together in a bid to use science to learn how people think.

"We do take it for granted, this wonderful inner world that no one else can hack into," neurologist and center director Susan Greenfield told the BBC. "This marvelous amazing phenomena is somehow caused by this sludgy physical brain. And ... we neurologists are getting very impatient about how it's happening."

Sorry if this is a repost.

 

[Ashles]

I read something about this, and I remember the scientists assuring everyone that they would be "humane" in their torture.

Should be interesting to see the results.

I like that the scientists are using burning pads and chili gel. Makes me think of them standing around discussing torture techniques:

"Chinese burn"
"Nah not nasty enough"
"Deep Heat in the jockstrap?"
"I like it."

 

[DeVega]

LOL! It's hard to take this seriously...

How can they be humane with their pain? Pain is REAL. If they inflict a 140 degree heat pad on someones hand that IS going to inflict a fairly serious burn!

I appreciate the participents must be volunteers but the mind boggles when one considers WHO might volunteer for this sort of thing?

Hmmm.

DeVega

 

[supercorgi]

Interesting but I hope they also test for looking at and thinking about non-religious topics. Like show them pictures of cute little furry critters - those are usually soothing. It may be that just concentrating on anything, religious or not, produces differences in the brain and may distract from pain. I wonder if the controls will be sufficient - probably not.

As for the type of person who will volunteer for this? Highly motivated religious people who want some, any, evidence that god & prayer make a difference. Hmmm..some devoted skeptics should volunteer as a control group...but nah...most of us aren't that masochistic.

 

[drkitten]

Re: LOL! It's hard to take this seriously...

I'm having problems confirming this story. For that matter, I can't even confirm that the people cited in the story, or the institute where this is supposed to happen ("Oxford Center for Science of the Mind") even exists.

Might this be someone trying it on with the AP news feed, and AP didn't do enough fact checking?

 

[Steven Howard]

Re: Re: LOL! It's hard to take this seriously...

I'm having problems confirming this story. For that matter, I can't even confirm that the people cited in the story, or the institute where this is supposed to happen ("Oxford Center for Science of the Mind") even exists.

Might this be someone trying it on with the AP news feed, and AP didn't do enough fact checking?

This article from the Financial Times says the Templeton Foundation will be funding a new "mind science centre" at Oxford, and mentions the pain study in passing.

The John Templeton Foundation seems to be real.

There is a Susan Greenfield at Oxford. Also, apparently, a Toby Collins.

Edit: And here's the original article from the Telegraph.

 

[Marian]

Well, offhand the one thing I find hugely flawed about this (just offhand, I'm sure there's much more) is that there have been studies demonstrating that distraction eases pain.

Heck, I could have told them that. I play games (both online and off) and it helps tremendously with pain management personally.

A study I read recently though had burn victims while undergoing wound cleaning (an agonizing thing ) play a VR game (I think it involved skiing) while under treatment. Many patients who had still experienced pain (from minor to severe) under morphine had little to no pain while distracted with the VR, and rated it better than morphine.

I know anecdotal evidence isn't evidence, but it certainly coorelates to my personal experiences, and probably everyone else who's had pain too. If you think about it, it hurts much worse. If you can immerse yourself into something else and be distracted, it is FAR more tolerable.

Why would prayer or some religious stuff be any different?

If you have one group focusing on another task, and another group focusing on nothing...and thereby focusing only on the pain...which group do you think would report higher pain?

Scientists will seek to determine whether the religious imagery better distracts from pain than placebo pills, or thinking mundane thoughts.

No brainer, and nothing mystical about it. You could have people focus on Barney tapes and another group on nothing, and I'd give you excellent odds that the Barney group would report less pain (though more homicidal thoughts).

The Cult of Barney should be pleased to be able to announce that "Barney heals".

 

[Eleatic Stranger]

It's nice to see those claims that Marxism constitutes a valid scientific viewpoint really being put to the test these days.

We'll see whether or not religion really is the opiate of the masses now!

 

[Anders W. Bonde]

Considering the extent of human suffering through the eons, prayer certainly hasn't done anything to remove the sources of pain...

 

[TruthSeeker]

I'm a pain researcher.

I haven't seen this protocol nor do I know Dr. Anderson. However if this quote is remotely accurate, Pamela Thompson and her team are terribly naive about pain:

.

"What we're looking at is how what goes on in the brain can affect pain," Thompson said.

Pain is in the brain. The brain creates pain. It doesn't act on pain as if it were external to the brain.

There are decades of research on this and several labs focusing on the imaging of pain.

I am reluctant to comment on a newspaper account but many of the points raised here are valid. Distraction does change pain. Religious coping changes pain. I don't think that staring at religious symbols is the same as religious coping. It is distraction. A cognitive task really.

Also there is no mention of including nonbelievers or matching imagery to beliefs.

The pain stimuli sound fairly standard. No long term damage results.

All sorts of people volunteer for these studies. I'd need to know more about their subject inclusion/exclusion criteria to comment.

I'll ask around and see if any of my colleagues can add to the picture.

 

[podz99]

Re: LOL! It's hard to take this seriously...

How can they be humane with their pain? Pain is REAL. If they inflict a 140 degree heat pad on someones hand that IS going to inflict a fairly serious burn!

I appreciate the participents must be volunteers but the mind boggles when one considers WHO might volunteer for this sort of thing?

Hmmm.

DeVega

As this was quoted from the nydailynews... an american news source (?).. I'm assuming the temperature is 140deg Fahrenheit.. which is equal to 60deg Celsius (which is also the temp they stated on the BBC website article).. enough to hurt i guess, but probably not enough to cause lasting damage. Or did you know that already?

 

[DeVega]

Oops - my bad!

I thought is was the other way around as it is a British Study?

Whichever - I wouldn't let them try it on me!


DeVega

 

[Marian]

This is slightly off topic, but I had to share it as it's making me giggle.

I'm just picturing some Bene Gesserit saying, "Put your hand into the box."

"What's in the box?"

"Pain."

(Apologies to all who haven't read Dune. )

 

[Pup]

Not to mention the effect of motivation on pain. Now that the word is out, there are going to be volunteers who hear the instructions (regardless of what's really said) as: "If you can stand this pain longer than one of those godless heathens in the other room, it'll prove there is a god and prayer works."