George W. Bush and Dick Cheney Found Guilty of War Crimes

[RandFan]

Okay, it's only Malaysia. I'm sure I could mount a good rhetorical defense if I were still a W. supporter. I'll grant this premise up front. If this is the only conviction it will be at most a footnote of little import, in the least it will be ignored by historians. I think the latter unlikely given the sheer weight of the evidence. It also needs to be noted this is only a "tribunal of conscience" and holds no power for enforcement. Bush and Cheney could travel there with no fear of arrest.

Also, to be sure, there are no warrants anywhere in the world for Bush and/or Cheney that I know of. There are a lot of rumors about the pair not being able to visit Europe but that is a myth.

It's possible this is a hoax so I provided two separate sources. Esquire and Foreign Journal. We'll see. What do you think?

War Criminals Among Us: Bush, Cheney, and the Eyes of the World

In which we learn how to say 'war crimes' in Malaysian.
...

In what is the first ever conviction of its kind anywhere in the world, the former US President and seven key members of his administration were... found guilty of war crimes. Bush, Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld and their legal advisers Alberto Gonzales, David Addington, William Haynes, Jay Bybee and John Yoo were tried in absentia in Malaysia...At the end of the week-long hearing, the five-panel tribunal unanimously delivered guilty verdicts against Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld and their key legal advisors who were all convicted as war criminals for torture and cruel, inhumane and degrading treatment. Full transcripts of the charges, witness statements and other relevant material will now be sent to the Chief Prosecutor of the International Criminal Court, as well as the United Nations and the Security Council.

 

[Frank Newgent]

President Bush was convicted of war crimes in absentia in Kuala Lumpur three years ago.

From what I recall you two didn't really get along.

 

[Border Reiver]

This court has the same weight and standing as the International Common Law Court of Justice that "convicted" Queen Elizabeth, Pope Benedict and PM Stephen Harper of Genocide a few years back. It's a collection of wannabees with delusions of grandeur, an issue to raise and a complete lack of ability to do anything productive on the issue.

 

[carlitos]

This is old news. John Conyers had a pretend trial in the basement of the House of Republicans years ago.

 

[Checkmite]

It's possible this is a hoax so I provided two separate sources. Esquire and Foreign Journal. We'll see. What do you think?

Well it's not strictly a hoax in the sense that the people running the "court" genuinely consider themselves an actual court with all the weight and authority that ought to entail; but it is a delusion. In actual fact they are just some people who decided to start a court, probably for the specific purpose of trying world leaders in absentia who they feel are evil.

 

[Spindrift]

I'm waiting to hear the verdict from Judge Judy.

 

[GnaGnaMan]

Also, to be sure, there are no warrants anywhere in the world for Bush and/or Cheney that I know of. There are a lot of rumors about the pair not being able to visit Europe but that is a myth.

Maybe not all that mythy. Germany is one country that holds that all nations have jurisdiction over crimes against humanity. Prosecutors can neglect to investigate when no German nationals are involved, the crimes were not committed on German soil and the accused are not in Germany nor expected to come to Germany. However, if one of the Bush gang were to come to Germany... It would be much preferable if they didn't. There is no guarantee they wouldn't be arrested.
I don't know about other countries but there's probably a couple where the situation is similar.

 

[Border Reiver]

Maybe not all that mythy. Germany is one country that holds that all nations have jurisdiction over crimes against humanity. Prosecutors can neglect to investigate when no German nationals are involved, the crimes were not committed on German soil and the accused are not in Germany nor expected to come to Germany. However, if one of the Bush gang were to come to Germany... It would be much preferable if they didn't. There is no guarantee they wouldn't be arrested.
I don't know about other countries but there's probably a couple where the situation is similar.

Actually, the international criminal offences - war crimes, crimes against humanity, piracy, etc. - are considered to be crimes of universal jurisdiction and those people accused of it can be tried anywhere, most countries with a developed legal system or who have signed onto various international treaties such as the Geneva Conventions also incorporate these offences into the national legal system. Bush and Cheny can likely plan a good-ol'-boys weekend in Munich for Oktoberfest anytime - until a German prosecutor decides to do the paperwork necessary to indict them anyways. But then, they'd get a trial where they get to actually provide a defence...

 

[Upchurch]

Well, unlike with truther claims, we know the Bush Administration actually did torture prisoners, specifically a kind of torture that the US has prosecuted as war crimes after WWII.

So, while the trial itself lacks much credibility, the charge is legitimate.

 

[The Big Dog]

Obama and Biden Also Guilty of War Crimes

ZOMG! Obama and Biden also guilty of war crimes by totes credible pack of freedom fighters or something, and not a pack of spittle soaked lunatics.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/obama-biden-are-war-criminals-under-un-charter-analyst/5316112

/because "skeptics": no I don't think that they are guilty of war crimes, I am just using this to demonstrate how *********** ridiculous the OP's arguments truly are.

20 days left!

 

[GnaGnaMan]

ZOMG! Obama and Biden also guilty of war crimes by totes credible pack of freedom fighters or something, and not a pack of spittle soaked lunatics.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/obama-biden-are-war-criminals-under-un-charter-analyst/5316112

/because "skeptics": no I don't think that they are guilty of war crimes, I am just using this to demonstrate how *********** ridiculous the OP's arguments truly are.

Not sure I understand this. What's supposed to be ridiculous?

You can make a reasonable case that the drone strikes are criminal. I don't think it would stand in a court but I don't see that there's anything obviously wrong.
Maybe you refer to the accusations against the VP? I don't think you could make that stick but that's more a detail, IMHO.

I don't see the connection to the Bush gang, either. Are you really prepared to argue that Bush is innocent?

 

[The Big Dog]

Not sure I understand this. What's supposed to be ridiculous?

You can make a reasonable case that the drone strikes are criminal. I don't think it would stand in a court but I don't see that there's anything obviously wrong.
Maybe you refer to the accusations against the VP? I don't think you could make that stick but that's more a detail, IMHO.

I don't see the connection to the Bush gang, either. Are you really prepared to argue that Bush is innocent?

Kangaroo Courts trying people in absentia is ridiculous.

 

[Spindrift]

Kangaroo Courts trying people in absentia is ridiculous.

Why are you so hopping mad about it?

 

[The Big Dog]

FTR I don't think there's any cause to denigrate the OP tribunal as a kangaroo court. I see no reason to think that they did not apply the law properly. That the tribunal is symbolic and has no actual power is not ridiculous. It's tragicomic.

The former United Nations Special Rapporteur on the Independence of Judges and Lawyers, Param Cumaraswamy, has suggested the tribunal is a private enterprise with no legal basis and questions its legitimacy. The tribunal does not have a UN mandate or recognition, no power to order arrests or impose sentences, and it is unclear that its verdicts have any but symbolic significance.

and you think it is "tragicomic" that organization does not have "actual power"????

Ok.

 

[Spindrift]

The former United Nations Special Rapporteur on the Independence of Judges and Lawyers, Param Cumaraswamy, has suggested the tribunal is a private enterprise with no legal basis and questions its legitimacy. The tribunal does not have a UN mandate or recognition, no power to order arrests or impose sentences, and it is unclear that its verdicts have any but symbolic significance.

and you think it is "tragicomic" that organization does not have "actual power"????

Ok.

Nothing there says they didn't apply the law properly.

They may not have been authorized to do what they did but that doesn't preclude the possibility that they might have done a good job.

 

[12AX7]

The former United Nations Special Rapporteur on the Independence of Judges and Lawyers, Param Cumaraswamy, has suggested the tribunal is a private enterprise with no legal basis and questions its legitimacy. The tribunal does not have a UN mandate or recognition, no power to order arrests or impose sentences, and it is unclear that its verdicts have any but symbolic significance.
and you think it is "tragicomic" that organization does not have "actual power"????

Ok.

Dude, if you're going to steal giant chunks of text word-for-word, at least source it.

The former United Nations Special Rapporteur on the Independence of Judges and Lawyers, Param Cumaraswamy, has suggested the tribunal is a private enterprise with no legal basis and questions its legitimacy.[13] The tribunal does not have a UN mandate or recognition, no power to order arrests or impose sentences, and it is unclear that its verdicts have any but symbolic significance.[14]

Perhaps you just "forgot" to. Maybe "misrepresented intelligence"?

 

[The Big Dog]

Nothing there says they didn't apply the law properly.

They may not have been authorized to do what they did but that doesn't preclude the possibility that they might have done a good job.

ok, yeah, sounds like they totally kicked ass on the whole due process and raising a defense.

Maybe I am all wet about this, perhaps Obama and Biden ARE war criminals.

Thanks I have seen the light.

 

[GnaGnaMan]

The former United Nations Special Rapporteur on the Independence of Judges and Lawyers, Param Cumaraswamy, has suggested the tribunal is a private enterprise with no legal basis and questions its legitimacy. The tribunal does not have a UN mandate or recognition, no power to order arrests or impose sentences, and it is unclear that its verdicts have any but symbolic significance.

and you think it is "tragicomic" that organization does not have "actual power"????

Ok.

The tragicomedy lies in the fact that law and justice are reduced to empty gestures.

 

[RandFan]

ok, yeah, sounds like they totally kicked ass on the whole due process and raising a defense.

Maybe I am all wet about this, perhaps Obama and Biden ARE war criminals.

Thanks I have seen the light.

I don't know about Biden but Obama is, IMO, guilty of war crimes.

 

[Border Reiver]

The tragicomedy lies in the fact that law and justice are reduced to empty gestures.

An organization with no authority to do what it did "tries and convicts" people of offences and then publishes the results without the disclaimer that this was an intellectual exercise and you somehow believe that this somehow reduces law and justice to empty gestures?