George Romney, legal immigrant?

[JoeTheJuggler]

When asked about immigration at the recent town-hall style debate, Romney said:

First of all, this is a nation of immigrants. We welcome people coming to this country as immigrants. My dad was born in Mexico of American parents. Ann's dad was born in Wales and is a first- generation American. We welcome legal immigrants into this country.

So was that statement about his father purely a non sequitur or was he trying to imply that his father was an immigrant or something?

In fact, Mitt's grandparents were among the Mormons who responded to the Supreme Court's ruling against polygamy by establishing Mormon colonies in Mexico. They retained their citizenship. George was a natural born U.S. citizen and not an immigrant, legal or illegal (a distinction that wasn't made for much of our history, BTW).

And if he was just trying to suggest that this connection to Mexico made him simpatico with Mexicans/Latinos or Latinamerican culture at all, I would point out that the Mormons living in those colonies were not mixing in with Mexican culture. Remember, these would be what we'd consider orthodox Mormons standing up for polygamy--their view of Indians and Mestizos was not particularly enlightened. (I doubt, as my girlfriend suggested, that Mitt has any Mexican grand-baby-mamas.) In fact, they left those colonies due to anti-U.S. sentiment during the Mexican Revolution.

 

[pgwenthold]

I think that he is saying that all the american citizens living in Mexico are welcome to immigrate to the US.

I realize that this is a non-standard usage of immigrate, but if the home owner's mortgage deduction is a loophole, then a citizen moving to their home country can be immigration.

 

[JoeTheJuggler]

I think that he is saying that all the american citizens living in Mexico are welcome to immigrate to the US.

I realize that this is a non-standard usage of immigrate, but if the home owner's mortgage deduction is a loophole, then a citizen moving to their home country can be immigration.

I think you're right.

Of course my bigger concern is the perception of this remark by voters who are incurious enough to remain undecided at this point. Will they even wonder about it, or just assume Romney's folks immigrated from Mexico?

 

[JoeTheJuggler]

I may have to revise my position on the screwed up make-up job during Romney's Univision interview.

But he does here seem to want some credit wrt immigrants because his father was born in Mexico.

 

[Biscuit]

He wishes his grandfather had taken just one chicana amongst his wives. It would be so much easier for Mitt to elected that way.

 

[JoeTheJuggler]

So are there no Romney defenders here who can give any rational explanation for that statement?

 

[JoeTheJuggler]

No Romney supporters?

Or are there Romney supporters despite the fact that he says such ridiculous and indefensible things that insult the intelligence of the electorate?

 

[sir drinks-a-lot]

No Romney supporters?

Or are there Romney supporters despite the fact that he says such ridiculous and indefensible things that insult the intelligence of the electorate?

You guys are hilarious. You must be going over the debate transcripts ignoring the Obama parts and examining the Romney parts with a fine tooth comb looking for "gotchas".

Did you hear that Obama started a sentence with the phrase "when I was President...". Why do you think he did that? Is he so dumb that he forgot he is still President? Was he trying to deny responsibility for the past four years? I think I'll start a thread...

 

[JoeTheJuggler]

You guys are hilarious. You must be going over the debate transcripts ignoring the Obama parts and examining the Romney parts with a fine tooth comb looking for "gotchas".

Nope. First, I'm just one guy. Second, this statement leaped out at me when I was listening to the debate last night with the TV on in the other room.

[ETA: Even if I were part of a group that pored over the transcripts looking for a "gotcha"--that fact would not be a defense of Romney's statement, would it? Do you understand the red herring fallacy?]

Did you hear that Obama started a sentence with the phrase "when I was President...". Why do you think he did that? Is he so dumb that he forgot he is still President? Was he trying to deny responsibility for the past four years? I think I'll start a thread...

That's a feeble attempt at a tu quoque, but that's not even remotely similar anyway. Romney was implying that his father is a legal immigrant.

So getting back onto the topic: can you defend Romney's statement about his father being born in Mexico as part of his response to a question about immigration?

 

[sir drinks-a-lot]

Is your second off-topic post in response to my question a "no"?

So, let's see why did Mitt Romney, whose father was born in Mexico, say that his father was born in Mexico? Hmmm...

OK, I think I've figured it out. It's a tricky puzzle, but if you set your mind to it I think even you can figure it out. Let me know if you need a clue. I'm more than willing to help.

 

[JoeTheJuggler]

So, let's see why did Mitt Romney, whose father was born in Mexico, say that his father was born in Mexico? Hmmm...

OK, I think I've figured it out. It's a tricky puzzle, but if you set your mind to it I think even you can figure it out. Let me know if you need a clue. I'm more than willing to help.

So you can't think of any reason why he would make this statement as part of his answer to a question on immigration?

You can be as snarky as you want, but it's still no defense of this absurd statement. He clearly implied that his father was a legal immigrant. Otherwise, it's just a completely senseless non sequitur that sounds something like it might somehow be related to the question.

 

[JoeTheJuggler]

So, let's see why did Mitt Romney, whose father was born in Mexico, say that his father was born in Mexico? Hmmm...

By the way, I worded the question correctly when I asked it. Your rephrasing of it leaving out the context is merely setting up a straw man.

I'll rephrase it more succinctly if you like: why did Mitt Romney imply that his father George Romney was a legal immigrant?

 

[sir drinks-a-lot]

So you can't think of any reason why he would make this statement as part of his answer to a question on immigration?

Well, he started his answer by saying "let me step back and tell you what I would like to do with our immigration policy broadly and include an answer to your question", then he introduced his parents - one of which was born in Mexico, a hot area for immigration into the US.

You can be as snarky as you want, but it's still no defense of this absurd statement. He clearly implied that his father was a legal immigrant.

It is only an absurd statement to those like you, who are poring over every word Romney said with a fine tooth comb looking for "zingers". I'm sure you'll find many more with your diligence and one-sided scrutiny.

 

[JoeTheJuggler]

Well, he started his answer by saying "let me step back and tell you what I would like to do with our immigration policy broadly and include an answer to your question", then he introduced his parents - one of which was born in Mexico, a hot area for immigration into the US.

But his father wasn't an immigrant. He was a natural born citizen. So why did he introduce his father? If he just wanted to mention Mexico, he could have done so.

Do you suppose that his father having been born in Mexico gives Mitt a special insight into immigration or Mexico?

[ETA: Introducing his father in order to mention Mexico is not telling what he would like to do with our immigration policy broadly.]

It is only an absurd statement to those like you, who are poring over every word Romney said with a fine tooth comb looking for "zingers". I'm sure you'll find many more with your diligence and one-sided scrutiny.

This too is not a defense of Romney's non sequitur. Again, attacking me is not a defense of this statement which has nothing whatsoever to do with a question about immigration.

And I've already pointed out to you that your accusation of how this statement came to my attention is completely false. I didn't pore over the transcript or over every word Romney said with a fine tooth comb looking for zingers. It really stood out when I listened to the debate last night.

If you repeat the accusation again, I will point out yet again that it is false, but it seems a silly waste of time, doesn't it? Why did you make the same false accusation a second time? Do you think it would suddenly become true?

 

[sir drinks-a-lot]

But his father wasn't an immigrant. He was a natural born citizen. So why did he introduce his father? If he just wanted to mention Mexico, he could have done so.

That just isn't how people talk: "We welcome people coming to this country as immigrants. Ann's dad was born in Wales and is a first- generation American. We welcome legal immigrants into this country. Oh, and I'd also like to mention Mexico."

Do you suppose that his father having been born in Mexico gives Mitt a special insight into immigration or Mexico?

Maybe. Do you?

This too is not a defense of Romney's non sequitur. Again, attacking me is not a defense of this statement which has nothing whatsoever to do with a question about immigration.

The statement doesn't need a "defense".

I didn't pore over the transcript or over every word Romney said with a fine tooth comb looking for zingers.

The proof is in the pudding, ie. this stupid thread. Now are you going to answer my question on Obama saying "When I was president" - why would he say something like that? What was he trying to do? Who was he trying to deceive?

 

[JoeTheJuggler]

That just isn't how people talk: "We welcome people coming to this country as immigrants. Ann's dad was born in Wales and is a first- generation American. We welcome legal immigrants into this country. Oh, and I'd also like to mention Mexico."

That's a terrible parsing of Romney's statement. He clearly mentioned his father and Ann's father as parallels implying (wrongly) that his father was an immigrant.

Maybe. Do you?

I think he heard "immigrant" and thought that justified mentioning his connection to Mexico, and he probably hoped that would make him appear sympathetic somehow to Latinamericans. I think it was a stupid thing of him to think.

The statement doesn't need a "defense".

Actually it does. He most clearly implied that his father was a legal immigrant, even though we all know he's not.

The proof is in the pudding, ie. this stupid thread.

Name calling is not an argument.

Now are you going to answer my question on Obama saying "When I was president" - why would he say something like that? What was he trying to do? Who was he trying to deceive?

Your question is irrelevant, as I've already pointed out twice.

So again, is your introduction of something irrelevant to the thread topic a sign that you can think of no reasonable defense for Romney's mentioning that his father was born in Mexico in his response to a question about immigration?

 

[sir drinks-a-lot]

I think it was a stupid thing of him to think.

Name calling is not an argument.

So again, is your introduction of something irrelevant to the thread topic a sign that you can think of no reasonable defense for Romney's mentioning that his father was born in Mexico in his response to a question about immigration?

Again, his statement doesn't need a "defense". He said his father was born in Mexico, his father was born in Mexico. I can't even imagine what you think his statement needs to be defended from, as you've offered nothing but desperate speculation in this sorry thread.

</thread>

 

[JoeTheJuggler]

Again, his statement doesn't need a "defense". He said his father was born in Mexico, his father was born in Mexico.

In response to a question on immigration.

His father was not an immigrant, legal or otherwise.

Yet he implied that his father was a legal immigrant welcomed into the country the way Ann's dad was welcomed.

 

[Locknar]

Seems a bit chippy here. A few off-topics posts have been moved to AAH, to ensure you're future posts do not join them lets keep the discussion civil/polite, addressing the argument and on-topic.

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Locknar