George Bush is doing a great job....

[headscratcher4]

...or not.

In the spirit of Luke's excellent thread examining "extreme" views, I thought I'd try to get a "moderate" thread going.

As anyone who reads the P&CE threads knows, I am not a fan of Bush. By the same token, there are several (many?) fans here either of the President of his policies (you know who you are). I would like folks to -- and I know this won't be necessarilly easy -- try to be more objective.

Those of us in the "anti" Bush camp should suggest something that they believe the administration is doing right, is on the right track, or is worthy of praise and consideration.

Those who defend the President regularly (often with fact and logic -- you bast*rds -- sometime with emotional self-riteousness) are invited to address a failing.

What I am looking for is not a critic on execution, but for views of policies and goals. For example, the example I am going to sight, the Administration's execution of policy leaves me concerned, but the goal and the policy itself, it seems to me, is correct.

This might not work, but I'll give it a shot.

I think that the Administration's goal of reform of the UN is necessary and positive. Its concern over budgets, bureaucracy and corruption is well placed. Its frustration with bodies like the Human Rights Commission and members who are serial abusers is dead on. REforming the UN, making it more accountable and transparent and a better manager of resources is the only way to save the organization from irrelevence.

I'll try to think of some others, but there's a start.

Oh, yes, I think milatary base closings are probably a good thing as well.

 

[Zep]

I think that the Administration's goal of reform of the UN is necessary and positive. Its concern over budgets, bureaucracy and corruption is well placed. Its frustration with bodies like the Human Rights Commission and members who are serial abusers is dead on. REforming the UN, making it more accountable and transparent and a better manager of resources is the only way to save the organization from irrelevence.

Not wishing to rain on your parade by disagreeing first up, but...

The US Administration wishes are fine, I know the US finances a lot of the UN, and the UN is indeed in need of significant reform from the top down. But the operation of the UN is not at the direct beck and call of the USA. It is as much a US owned agency as is the Queen of England or the Russian Army. Sorry. The US Administration can ask, wheedle, bargain and plead, etc , but cannot order it so.

 

[Manny]

What the hell, I'll play.

He's spending too damn much money. I guess that's something of a bipartisan complaint.

He was and is wrong on the Marriage Amendment. He's wrong on gay marriage generally too, but I can't find any high-level politicians who are right on it, so it's hard to get too mad about that. But the Marriage Amendment was a slap in the face.

I suppose history will record whether it was the fault of politicians or generals, but someone sent about 100,000 too few troops to Iraq. The borders, ports, major defendable oil facilities (i.e., not pipelines, no one's asking for perfection here) and major cultural heritage sites of Iraq should have been sealed and absolutely impeneratable about 10 days after the Iraqi regular army melted away.

He held on to Colin Powell too long. I think Gen. Powell is among the greatest living Americans, but he clearly wasn't fully on board with the President's policies. Dr. Rice, by actually agreeing with the President, is doing a better job of making our case and mending relations with our allies.

He has a blind spot to appearances. Yes, he can order just as much stuff from Texas as from Washington, but in times of crisis people still want to see their president in Washington or on scene.

He's done a piss poor job of explaining Social Security reform and his ownership society in general, something that should absolutely been a centerpiece of his second term. As a result, even if he gets his tax cuts extended he's doomed to go down as a mediocre president on domestic issues unless he's lucky enough to get a successor who picks up the ball where he dropped it.

 

[headscratcher4]

Not wishing to rain on your parade by disagreeing first up, but...

The US Administration wishes are fine, I know the US finances a lot of the UN, and the UN is indeed in need of significant reform from the top down. But the operation of the UN is not at the direct beck and call of the USA. It is as much a US owned agency as is the Queen of England or the Russian Army. Sorry. The US Administration can ask, wheedle, bargain and plead, etc , but cannot order it so.

Zep...this is a fantasy thread, trying to force myself to think outside of my normal box...don't rain on the parade. What would you offer here?

 

[Luke T.]

I like Bush in theory but not in practice. I like his attitude that he shouldn't have to micromanage. I like his attitude that he trusts and is loyal to his subordinates to a fault.

However, for that kind of management style to work, you have to first pick people who can actually do the job well. And you kinda have to know how the job should be done.

I think the real brains behind the operation are Dick Cheney and Karl Rove. If there were an election between Bush and Cheney as President, I would vote for Cheney, twice, and donate all I could to the American Heart Association.

I think Bush is pretty clueless. He has some ideals that he picked up along the way, but has only an intuitive understanding of them and not any real intellectual depth of understanding of them.

I am worried for my country when I see people like Ann Coulter given air time. Seriously. I think a comedian could have made a good living by saying exactly what she says. Only the audience would understand it is all a joke becuase they are in a comedy club and would "get it". But Coulter isn't joking. And people aren't getting that they are supposed to be laughing at her.

The only consolation I have is that things would have been worse under Gore or Kerry. And that is such a pathetic consolation I could scream. Scream and scream.

So I end up debating with my dad, who doesn't want to hear that Bush is a fool. I should stick to how screwed up the Democrats are, and sing in harmony with my dad. But I don't. And then a few days later Dad gets sick and ends up in the hospital. When I told him I thought marijuana should be legal it nearly killed him.

I hope Bush's Social Security plan dies. I don't object to it for all the reasons I hear pundits obecting to it. I object to it because I don't think it is a good idea to trust someone who can't figure out how to punch a paper ballot to know how to invest their money so they end up with a retirement income. They are going to end up blowing it all on orange futures and Nigerian scams and the lottery and then coming back to Uncle Sam with their hand out.

Oh, I could go on and on.

 

[rikzilla]

He doeslook like a chimp.
(there I said it!)

I cringe whenever he speaks outside a structured event. His off the cuff remarks are just usually bone-stupid.

I feel that he was wrong on scrapping Kyoto without at least attempting to reconvene and get some easier terms and conditions negotiated. Saying no to Kyoto was not necessarily wrong; but saying "hell no!" was.

Bush and the Repubs were wrong to shout-down the Florida recount! SCOTUS was wrong to over-rule the Florida Supreme Court.

"No Child Left Behind" has not been effective and has resulted in a lot of Federal meddling in local school systems.

The intel failure on Iraq was abyssmal. An example of confirmation bias at it's most severe. Bush should have promoted several reasons for the Iraq invasion instead of placing all his eggs in one logically deficient basket. (Still and all I think there is evidence Bush made a mistake...but none that he lied.)

The Presidential embrace of Christianity is ever galling...and yet Bush is not an aberration in this regard.

Bush's embrace of the teaching of ID in public schools alongside Evolution is in a word "embarrassing".

I'll think of more later.....

-z

 

[headscratcher4]

Thanks Luke...ok, come on, others like myself who have expressed problems with Bush...what's good about him? What has he/his Administration done that you agree with? It can be a secret...we won't tell.

 

[Darat]

He always puts what he believes to be the USA's best interests first and doesn’t compromise on that (I think).

 

[zenith-nadir]

I am worried for my country when I see people like Ann Coulter given air time. Seriously.

I feel that way when anone interviews the nation's "pre-eminent spokesman for black America"... Jesse Jackson. At least Ann Coulter has a sense of humor. Here's a guy who claims he is a Christian minister while he has a extramarital affair with child, bilks corporate America and is chauffeur-driven to his full-time job crying racism in order to shake the money tree. Yet the mainstream media fails to hold Jackson accountable for these things and treats him like a saint.

 

[Manny]

I feel that way when anone interviews the nation's "pre-eminent spokesman for black America"... Jesse Jackson.

Hell, I feel that way when anyone interviews about 2/3 of the Democrats in the Senate. Barbara Boxer gets a 1% vote on all the country's legislation? Guys dumb enough and racist enough to use the term "white ******" on TV? Ann Coulter and Jesse Jackson may be annoying, but at least all they're getting out of the deal is airtime and money. Those guys aspire to run the country!

 

[Matabiri]

I think he is genuinely trying to make progress in Israel/Palestine. I may think this because I don't know much about the problems...

Further to what Darat said, he does put the best interests of the USA first. I'm not entirely sure this is admirable. What I think is admirable, though, is that he's shameless about it. He tends not to hide behind diplomatic niceties in international affairs. This may not be the best way of making friends and influencing people, but at least it means you know where you stand*.

(*Unless you're Tony Blair and really think that, some day, Bush will "owe you".)

 

[zenith-nadir]

Ann Coulter and Jesse Jackson may be annoying, but at least all they're getting out of the deal is airtime and money. Those guys aspire to run the country!

You forget Reverend Jackson’s two presidential campaigns, '86 & '88...

 

[ReFLeX]

Headscratcher, your signature is way out of hand.

 

[Luke T.]

Headscratcher, your signature is way out of hand.

They are very entertaining, IMHO. I always enjoy reading them. The beer factory tour was my favorite.

 

[corplinx]

Aside from gay marriage, too much spending, social program expansion, ID, firing Lindsey to make it seem like he was doing something about the recession, the scandalous money giving to columnists to promote his programs, not vetoing the farm bill/highway bill/energy bill, etc; now I'm supposed to find something new to criticize him over?

 

[headscratcher4]

They are very entertaining, IMHO. I always enjoy reading them. The beer factory tour was my favorite.

Yes, the beer factory tour was a classic...one of 'lil Kim's greatest hits...

Which leads me to another quasi-compliment...while I've doubts about our North Korea strategy, Bush has not minced words when it comes to charachterizing Kim. It may not be diplomatic, but calling the little mass murderer a mass murderer is needed every now and then....

 

[RandFan]

I've nothing new to offer. I don't like the spending and the increase in beuracracy. I don't like the mention of god and all of the religious crap. I wince at his malaprops and sometimes his folksy style is inapropriate. I don't like some of the subordinates that he has chosen. I don't like that he hasn't supported stem cell research.

 

[Manny]

I wince at his malaprops and sometimes his folksy style is inapropriate.

Heh. This probably reflects poorly on me as a person, but I love his malaprops and his folksiness. I didn't used to, but it drives the lefties up a wall and I really really enjoy that.

Watching them go off about how much smarter their middling-intelligence Yale-gentleman's C candidate was than the current middling-intelligence Yale-gentleman's C President was great political theater. "Yeah, but our guy speaks French." Ding, goodbye Tennessee! "Eastern is better than western." BAM!, goodbye New Mexico! "Bush said 'wanted dead or alive' like it was a western or something." Oh, yeah, I had forgotten about that. Goodbye Florida! Watching the contempt Democrats had for people who saw themselves in the President was just plain fun.

 

[ManfredVonRichthoffen]

My major problem is the religion, and there's no prettying that one up into a compliment.

The rest of my problem with him is his execution. When he's got a good idea, he isn't the man to execute it. Everything he touches turns to crap. That said, if you listen to the first sentence of each paragraph he says, you know, the part before he explains his plan for fixing it, he doesn't sound so bad.

The tax code is too complex and needs to be fixed.

Saddam is a bad guy and needs to be out of power.

Social Security needs overhauling.

We'll make the terrorists pay for what they've done.



I suppose it's the , "and here's my dumbass plan to accomplish that." that follows that gives me heartburn.

 

[punchdrunk]

I'm a big time Bush basher, so I'll try to come up with a few:

I appreciate his mea culpas, though they are too few and far between. The first that comes to mind is the secretly recorded taping from his "friend" when he said (I paraphrase), "the reason I don't want to admit to drug use is because I don't want young people doing and acting the way their president did." The second has apparently come today: Bush takes responsibility for blunders. These admissions tell me that he actually does learn from his experiences and does have some means for reflection and thus compassion - those who only get their compassion from God's word are usually pretty compassionless, IMO.

And despite the fact that he does a lot of God talk (good for the Christian votes afterall), with his actions he seems pretty moderate. It's easy for him to say he thinks teaching ID in schools is a good idea, because it's not a federal issue, and I don't see him trying to make it one (No Child Left Behind is not No Child Without Jesus). It's easy for him to say he thinks their should be a federal marriage amendment because he knows it would never pass. But his actions always seem to point to him being more moderate - like the appointment of John Roberts, etc. So while it disgusts me to hear him or anyone invoke the name of God, I feel like he's probably a little more sane than that, which is about as good as we'll get from the right side of the aisle these days.

Good OP headscratcher...