'Gazerism' Consequences False

[Z]

So much time wasted over such an unimportant theory! Well, I have to waste some more.

Darren, I'm taking you off of ignore at this time because I honestly want to read your responses to the following statements.

Now, as most of us know, 'Gazerism' is a pet name for the form of Acosmism which Darren preaches. The main premise, according to Darren, is that 'something' is having experiences of a Universe. He then follows a line of reasoning that leads him to conclude that the 'something' is God, a singular, boundless, indivisible entity, upon whose mind all of the Universe is presented, by Godself, to myriad fragmented sets of perceptions who mistakenly believe that they are separate beings.

He has boldly stated that he believes this theory can and will unite all of humanity in peace and harmony, because you would be forced to treat every person as yourself - as God - because that would be the truth of it.

Unfortunately, there is a catch - an absolutely huge catch - to this conclusion. Namely - what reason would you have to treat every other person as if they were yourself when a) they clearly are not yourself, and b) the very arguments that lead to the God-conclusion absolutely prove that no other beings exist?

Let's, for a moment, ignore his flawed premises and faulty arguments, and focus on his main conclusions:

1) Something is having illusionary experiences of a non-existant 'real universe'.

2) That 'something' must be God.

3) God is omnipresent; therefore, if God exists, nothing else can.

Now, this being true, and Darren having previously said that this applies to any self-aware being:

For whoever is presently reading these words:

1) You are having illusionary experiences of a non-existant 'real universe'.
2) You must be God.
3) You are omnipresent; therefore, if you exist, nothing else can.

So what cause, again, do you have for treating people better? They are just illusionary experiences in a non-existant 'real world'. They're all Sims, God. You can do what you damned well please.

Hence, this is where, honestly, 'Gazerism' truly leads: not to 6 billion faces of one god, but to 6 billion gods, each who thinks only it exists.

Think real hard about it, Darren. You've never said that all experiences are interconnected. You've never even said they exist at all. Your arguments have never once proven that other beings are having experiences at all... and, honestly, you can't.

So why shouldn't we each consider ourselves to be God, and do whatever we please?

 

[UndercoverElephant]

Hence, this is where, honestly, 'Gazerism' truly leads: not to 6 billion faces of one god, but to 6 billion gods, each who thinks only it exists.

Bingo!

http://www.internationalskeptics.co...32305&highlight=lifegazers+illogical+paradise

Doesn't actually work out, does it?

Geoff: In your paradise, do animals still die?

Lifegazer: No

Geoff: Does being eaten involve suffering?

Lifegazer: No suffering anywhere.

Geoff: Does starvation involve suffering?

Lifegazer: No starvation anywhere.

Geoff: Or is a world without suffering a logical impossibility?

Lifegazer: A world without suffering is the ultimate wish (of God). Therefore, that destiny awaits.

Geoff: Can I assume that you are now ready to admit your "childish imagination" (your words) of a paradise where there is no suffering is in fact illogical and impossible as well as being a childish fantasy?

Lifegazer: No, you cannot assume any such thing.

My philosophy is that we are all God, being. At "the end of days", humanity as a whole will know this. Hence, at that time, man shall be crowned sovereign over all that he surveys. King of the universe... God upon his throne.

Geoff: Do you think the world would be a better place if all the skeptics adopted your childish fantasy?

Lifegazer: The world would be a better place if people strived for unity, yes. But the future you ask of facilitates no skeptics.

Geoff: Don't you think your own development might be helped by growing out of your childish fantasies and learning to reason like a rational adult?

Lifegazer: I have reasoned that there is a God and that God is all being. Therefore, I have legitimately reasoned that mankind is headed towards a future of Divine dominion over all that he surveys.

I speak of the future. Not today. But not too far distant.

Yep. It's like the worse forms of eschatological Christianity, but without any need to subdue your own ego. Apparently "your ego becomes God's ego".

 

[Thomas]

Thanks you two. It no doubt shows just how farfetched and imaginary his assumptions are, in a nice clean-cut manner.

..but zaayrdragon is a Hitler admirer

 

[Z]

..but zaayrdragon is a Hitler admirer

Where did that come from?

Actually, I admire what Hitler initially set out to do. He did successfully - for a time - bring Germany out of a Depression of sorts, and restored its economic structure. But he was also nutso-psycho, and lost touch with reality in very short order. Combine that with the fact that most of his underlings were power-mad lunatics as well... Bad combination, all around.

Nevertheless, I'm curious - what makes you think I'm a Hitler admirer?

 

[Upchurch]

As far as it goes, I think the social contract and acknowledgment of innate human worth is a much more compelling argument for being nice to one another.

To apply an analogy, my hair (what is left of it) is definitely a part of me and yet, I feel absolutely no compulsion to respect its inherent value and I cut it about once a week. Likewise, if I view those around me as simply an illusionary part of my greater self, what inherent value do "others" have?




Answer: None. Any value would be solely extrinsic.

 

[Thomas]

Nevertheless, I'm curious - what makes you think I'm a Hitler admirer?

Heh, I forgot the url for direct links, so see the post in this thread where I introduce the Hula Hoop-hypothesis (a.k.a. Gazerism).

 

[CFLarsen]

Actually, I admire what Hitler initially set out to do. He did successfully - for a time - bring Germany out of a Depression of sorts, and restored its economic structure.

That was not all he set out to do. Lebensraum, Jews gone, total power unto himself. Do you also admire that?

And you might want to look into how he brought Germany out of a "Depression of sorts" (that was one heck of a Depression, not just "of sorts"), restoring its economic structure. You can start with the crushing of the unions, anihilation of other political parties, and the total control of the people.

But first, you might want to tell us, if you admire the purpose of Hitler bringing Germany out of a "Depression of sorts". It has three letters, begins with "W" and ends with "r".

But he was also nutso-psycho, and lost touch with reality in very short order. Combine that with the fact that most of his underlings were power-mad lunatics as well

Hitler lost touch with reality from the start. He was never one for reality, but only the reality he chose for himself, starting from his early childhood. His underlings were carefully chosen by Hitler, who knew exactly who - or rather, what - he was dealing with.

You definitely have open a history book sometime.

 

[Z]

- In response to Geoff -

Ah, I see.

I suppose I'll just have to be a Hitler admirer - within your worldview.

Within my worldview, I'm a Bullwinkle Moose admirer. Could be worse, I guess...

 

[CFLarsen]

As far as it goes, I think the social contract and acknowledgment of innate human worth is a much more compelling argument for being nice to one another.

To apply an analogy, my hair (what is left of it) is definitely a part of me and yet, I feel absolutely no compulsion to respect its inherent value and I cut it about once a week. Likewise, if I view those around me as simply an illusionary part of my greater self, what inherent value do "others" have?

Answer: None. Any value would be solely extrinsic.

What's worse is, if you view those around you as being illusionary, you won't feel any obligation to help them, or even respect their right to live. As you can kill your dream monsters with no remorse, so you can kill illusionary people around you.

Heck, if you feel they bother you, you have to.

Some serial killers have believed that the world around them was not "real", and they had therefore no obligation towards it.

 

[Wudang]

Indeed, it has been pointed out several times that thus far we have 1 (one) supposed adherent of Gazerism (HHP) viz. LG himself. That 1 adherent's behaviour and respect for other people is documented as all you plonkers will have observed. So apparently if you believe all are one you can be as unpleasant to individual aspects of that one as you wish.

 

[Upchurch]

That 1 adherent's behaviour and respect for other people is documented as all you plonkers will have observed. So apparently if you believe all are one you can be as unpleasant to individual aspects of that one as you wish.

Ya know, it isn't often that you can make a such a broad statement about adherents of a particular religion and it not be a generalization, but an accurte description of each and every member of that faith.

 

[UndercoverElephant]

Ya know, it isn't often that you can make a such a broad statement about adherents of a particular religion and it not be a generalization, but an accurte description of each and every member of that faith.

Faith? What a dumb geezer you are! You haven't been listening. It's not faith. It's all down to pure reason!

It's all gone a bit quiet, hasn't it? Do you think he's finally realised there are no wheels left on his wagon or is he going to come back in a day or two and start repeating himself again?

 

[CFLarsen]

Do you think he's finally realised there are no wheels left on his wagon or is he going to come back in a day or two and start repeating himself again?

You sure aren't afraid to ask dangerous questions....

 

[Upchurch]

Faith? What a dumb geezer you are! You haven't been listening. It's not faith. It's all down to pure reason!

Sorry, I was using the English language.

It's all gone a bit quiet, hasn't it? Do you think he's finally realised there are no wheels left on his wagon or is he going to come back in a day or two and start repeating himself again?

Do you really need to ask? I mean, look at all the attention we're giving him with virtually no likelyhood that we'll drop the ban hammer on him like other forums have. You think he's going to give up a sweet deal like that?

 

[jmercer]

I dunno about "virtually no likelyhood"... he keeps insulting people, and they'll eventually ban him.

 

[Thomas]

I dunno about "virtually no likelyhood"... he keeps insulting people, and they'll eventually ban him.

It's curious that the Prophet who is here to unite us all uses this approach.

"Those who understand MY philosophy will treat each other politely and gentle, you big "#¤"#%¤!!"#??%"#!!!!".

 

[P.S.A.]

*ahem*

Lifegazer has directly accused myself of being like Hitler. His current obsession, so the quoting of him has revealed, is to state that the JREF is exactly like the Klu Klux Klan. I've seen (I think) up to 3 different quotes where he's said that since the moderated thread began. Not quite up to Hitler's influence, but morally certainly as evil.

If you want further proof of Zaayrdragon in particular being "evil", I draw your attention to the fact that in the now unmoderated thread, even after he knows I predicted the following...

The questions and noticed contradictions will keep on coming however. Perhaps there'll be an appearence of the usual Lifegazer critics; still being polite of course, but Lifegazer is a prejudicial and bitter husk of a man... once he decides he doesn't like you, that's it, you are damned for ever. As soon as a Zaayrdragon or other rational but critical person appears, he'll lose all interest in the thread, because it will be tainted to him because of them and their evil natures.

.... what did it turn out the post Upchurch was shaking his head sadly at was? Why it was a personal attack upon Zaayrdragon.

And he means this, folks. Maybe not all the time, because he's unstable, but when he's down, he genuinely does think you and Zaayrdragon and I and anyone else who criticizes this "philosophy" is evil. You are not just challenging the path which he tried to take to deal with whatever it was that broke his mind all those years ago, you are not just trying to take away all he has left after driving off his loved ones with it... you are literally killing God, and all that is good, in his mind.

*shivers*

 

[UndercoverElephant]

He's accused me of trying to kill God before. He said that he was defending God from me.....as if God needs lifegazer to defend Himself from a mortal human being.

 

[kuroyume0161]

- In response to Geoff -

Ah, I see.

I suppose I'll just have to be a Hitler admirer - within your worldview.

Within my worldview, I'm a Bullwinkle Moose admirer. Could be worse, I guess...

One has to remember that all that happened after Hitler attained power was already 'pre-ordained'. The Volkswagen, Autoban, restoration after the massive depression (during which you could buy a loaf of bread for 10,000,000,000 Marks!) - all of this was in direct relation to the Aryan plan set forth in "Mein Kampf" which he wrote while rotting in prison for his political views.

The correlations between Adolf Hitler and Napoleon Bonaparte are astounding. They both attained power by appealing to the "people". Napoleon started out for Liberty and Egalitarianism. He erected all sorts of great projects, just like Hitler. He quickly went Burgeous then Aristrocratic, then Deific - in a Roman Caesar sense. Hitler attempted the same thing (just look at the military standards and roads and buildings).

No. Nothing that Hitler did was 'good'. They were all steps in a plan to unite Germany in preparation for world domination:

1. Sending Archaeologists to Egypt in the 30's wherein secret stashes of fuel reserves were buried in preparation for the North African campaign.

2. Hosting of the 1936 Olympics as a means to promote the superiority of the "Aryan Race".

3. The Autoban and other road projects were done specifically to facilitate the movement of troops and armor across Germany for invasion.

4. Treaties with Russia, Great Britain, and others to secure complacency during minor "validated" usurpation (Austria, Czechoslovakia, et al).

And on and on.

The worst part is that he could have succeeded had not his selfish megalomania blinded his judgement (pointless, obsessive bombing of London and intractable stance on Stalingrad to mention a couple).

Never forget for surely there will be another.

 

[Kopji]

A problem with belief in absolute truth is that eventually you conclude that people who resist it are evil.