Tin Foil Timothy
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happy now?
Gaza villages Wiped off the map
- Thread starter Tin Foil Timothy
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happy now?
Jonathon Miller describes the war as lopsided; no kidding. So how lopsided are the rocket launchings by Hamas into Israel? They are hitting civilians, not military targets right?
So why are the people in Gaza dependant upon Israel so much? Why aren't they getting much more of what they need from Egypt? Why do they need to smuggle non-military items in the tunnels between Egypt and Gaza?
Ranb
So why are the people in Gaza dependant upon Israel so much? Why aren't they getting much more of what they need from Egypt? Why do they need to smuggle non-military items in the tunnels between Egypt and Gaza?
Ranb
- Hamas fires rockets at Israel.
- Israel retaliates
- TFT gets his pants in a knot because Israel is apparently too good at retaliation.
Think there might be a connection, TFT?
Oliver
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So if my neighbor periodically gets drunk and shoots at me and my wife and our cats, I should just give him a big fatWe all know how dangerous and accurate those rockets are, don't we?
because he's not a very good shot, especially when he's been drinking, and he's only killed one of my cats in the last eight years and only nicked my wife once in the left arm in all that time. What's the BFD?yairhol
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We all know how dangerous and accurate those rockets are, don't we?
Care to live in a town and raise your children where 'unaccurate' rockets fall on an almost daily basis?
didn't think so.
Hamas is very happy....as long as their people suffer. Thats why they fired rockets into Israel. They KNEW they would not cause many casualties..but they prayed that it would force an Israeli invasion and massive civilian deaths.
This is not the 1st, or the 2nd, or the 3rd time, fellow Arabs have sacrificed the welfare of their Palestinian brothers in the name of politics and propaganda.
Hamas...is the enemy of the Palestinian people. This would NOT have happened if Fatah as still in control of Gaza.
This is not the 1st, or the 2nd, or the 3rd time, fellow Arabs have sacrificed the welfare of their Palestinian brothers in the name of politics and propaganda.
Hamas...is the enemy of the Palestinian people. This would NOT have happened if Fatah as still in control of Gaza.
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Oliver
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So if my neighbor periodically gets drunk and shoots at me and my wife and our cats, I should just give him a big fat
If I had to choose between living in Gaza or in Israel near the Gaza border, I definitely would choose Israel as the less dangerous place. If you ask me about the more deadly and destructive force, it's actually Israel that causes more harm than Hamas could ever do to Israel with their lousy rockets.
You all know that pretty well.
If there was ever a more classic example of "blame the victim" thinking, I'm not aware of it.
Re-quoting (with slight modification) from my first post in this thread:
Egypt made peace with Israel over 30 years ago, and Israel hasn't levelled a single Egyptian village, launched any air strikes, or sent in any ground forces since then.
Think there might be a connection, Oliver?
Oliver
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What do you mean by "blame the victim example"? You know pretty well that Hamas was elected because of the very conditions in Gaza due to Israel pretty much keeping the economy down and controlling everything they can. Both sides are victims.
Also, why doesn't Egypt manage to check what's going out of and into Gaza, being a friend of Israel?
And third, I actually don't agree with the OP's assessment.
Only one side has it in its power to stop the bloodshed - Hamas. If they made peace with Israel, life in Gaza would improve immeasurably.
Instead, Hamas chooses war with Israel, then complains that Israel is destroying Gaza's economy. The audacity is breathtaking.
More breathtaking: The fact that you buy it.
Egypt is not "a friend of Israel." Read the official Egyptian press for a few days and you'll be quickly disabused of that fantasy.
Oliver
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Are you seriously arguing that the economic situation in Gaza is due to Hamas coming to power in June 2007? Lol?
Thursday, 12 September, 2002, 12:08 GMT 13:08 UK
BBC: Palestine's economy 'impossible to fix'
And coincidentally at the almost same time:
Wednesday, 6 November, 2002, 20:42 GMT
BBC: Hamas rises from the PA's ashes
webfusion
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Not intending to speak for Beeps, but I find it fascinating to see how Oliver takes a statement "Hamas chooses war with Israel, then complains that Israel is destroying Gaza's economy." and turns it around to mean something completely different than what was said:
"Are you seriously arguing that the economic situation in Gaza is due to Hamas coming to power in June 2007?"
No, Oliver, BPSCG made a comment that was completely valid on its face: Hamas is complaining about the Israeli blockade (and the resulting ongoing damage to an already-tattered economy). There is no arguing that fact.
Hamas has been asked, countless times, to change from being a terrorist organization, to being part of a legitimate government of the Gaza Strip and working to attain a peaceful resolution of the conflict.
They still refuse.
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2009-02/03/content_10758268.htm
Hamas leader Khaled Meshaal called last week for forming a new leadership for (all) the Palestinians including political factions "who support armed resistance against Israel."
"Are you seriously arguing that the economic situation in Gaza is due to Hamas coming to power in June 2007?"
No, Oliver, BPSCG made a comment that was completely valid on its face: Hamas is complaining about the Israeli blockade (and the resulting ongoing damage to an already-tattered economy). There is no arguing that fact.
Hamas has been asked, countless times, to change from being a terrorist organization, to being part of a legitimate government of the Gaza Strip and working to attain a peaceful resolution of the conflict.
They still refuse.
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2009-02/03/content_10758268.htm
Hamas leader Khaled Meshaal called last week for forming a new leadership for (all) the Palestinians including political factions "who support armed resistance against Israel."
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If it's because the Gazans believed Hamas was going to bring good government and peace and prosperity and Hamas reneged on the promise, then they should vote Hamas out of power at the earliest possible opportunity.
If it's because the Gazans believed Hamas was going to bring war to them, then they got what they wanted.
Whatever the reason, why should that be Israel's concern?
Well, heck, if it's on You Tube it must be correct!!!!!!!
Oh, by the way, did the video cover the period of time for say 24 hours prior to destruction through the aftermath - just curious about what Hamas was doing there that brought on the destruction.
Nitpick
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Well, heck, if it's on You Tube it must be correct!!!!!!!
I don't know if this is correct or not, but Youtube is not the ultimate source. Youtube is just a platform.
If I'm not mistaken, it's a Channel 4 coverage (at least the journalist, Jonathan Miller, is working for C4 - peple from the UK will probably know more...)
Edited for typos
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Oliver
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It should be Israels concern because Hamas success also reflects Israel's impotence to achieve peace and to improve the economic situation in Gaza. In other words, Israel unintentionally [I assume] helped to push Hamas in the first place.
But improving Gaza's economy might not be Israel's concern anyway given the situation before Hamas took control.
From the very beginning after the elections, Israel and the "Quarted on the middle east" imposed economic sanctions against Gaza, thus pretty much furthering radicalization of the newly elected Government due to not accepting it and punishing the Palestinians in Gaza at the same time.
There might have been a chance to moderate Hamas by starting diplomatic relations after the elections to improve the situation.
But again, it might not be Israel's concern anyway since a weak Gaza is a welcome situation to keep things under control. And what Democracy cares about elected Governments anyway if they don't kiss Israel's ass?
Also: Hamas rockets pose no real threat to Israel's national security - in strong contrast to Israel's lame duck policy towards peace due to a weak political will and the luxury of foreign military aid helping to literally dictate Israel's own will onto those who disagree in their neighborhood.
To whine about Hamas and it's "mind-boggling threat to Israel", is a pretty pathetic claim for a superpower in the Middle-East.
WildCat
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The only people whining in this thread are you and TFT.To whine about Hamas and it's "mind-boggling threat to Israel", is a pretty pathetic claim for a superpower in the Middle-East.
Waaah, waaah, waaah! Israel is defending itself! Waaaah! Waaaah! Waaah!