Gays in minority communities.

[332nd]

This came from a conversation about the Quarter Back Vince Young of the Titans.

For those that don't know Young had somewhat of a breakdown this past weekend when he was booed for a couple of interceptions. Now it is quite possible (and from what is know publicly more likely) that he got spoiled in high school and college as a star and what's more as an effective star, then got to the NFL and found that the great running QB is not nearly as effective.

After this was brought up I pointed out that he might have serious mental problems and the booing was the last straw. Then another friend pointed out that he might be gay and being pressured to come out.

This struck a chord with me because I've seen people struggling to come out before. On top of that, I know how hard the Black community is on homosexuals. (One of the proudest moments in my life is when my cousin came out as lesbian and my aunts, including her own mother, were talking about how horrible it was that she had done this and adopted a son. My Dad slammed his hand on the table and chewed them out for being bigoted idiots. One line that stuck with me was, "IF it is a sin then it's between her and God and I'm not gonna listen to a God that rejects love for a human being because they can't have a kid naturally.)

The difficulty in coming out in the Black community gave rise to the "Down Low". For those that don't know the "Down Low" is a sub culture that means that one will not admit that one is gay. Thus there can be no safe sex. Safe sex would be "admitting" to being gay. Also this subculture tends to be very promiscuous and any sex with guys is deemed "freaky", not gay.

As you can see there are many questions and feel free to ask or add your own, but what I want to know is a)how is homosexuality handled in other minority communities? b) I teach at the college level and come across many who are struggling with coming out. How do I help them deal with it?

ETA: I'm the type that confronts and I've seen the direct approach go bad so I'd like to get a little advice on other ways if possible.

 

[GreNME]

Sounds like your dad is a pretty reasonable guy.

I've seen that in the black and hispanic communities, though lately I guess it's been less so in some hispanic communities. I'm only privy to the black community on a family level through my own cousins (and uncle), so other than what you already said I don't really have much to add. I see what you're talking about and I feel bad for anyone who has to confront such a thing themselves, but don't know if there's anything going on as far as a movement in the black community to encourage more tolerance of gays. I recall a DJ in NYC who's made some decent statements about the state of homophobia in the hip-hop community, and there's some overlap (like a Venn diagram), but even he didn't say much else outside of "what does it matter to you that someone who loves someone else of the same gender want to be together?" (or something like that).

Maybe there needs to be more "breakthrough artists" like Samwell? (search for him on YouTube)

 

[WildCat]

The difficulty in coming out in the Black community gave rise to the "Down Low". For those that don't know the "Down Low" is a sub culture that means that one will not admit that one is gay. Thus there can be no safe sex. Safe sex would be "admitting" to being gay. Also this subculture tends to be very promiscuous and any sex with guys is deemed "freaky", not gay.

Like that guy who married Star Jones.

 

[Cain]

I watched some documentary about teh gays a little while back. The filmmakers profiled a black lesbian and her coming out to her parents church-going parents, who refused to accept her at first. The father got off a great line. He had a son and this daughter, and when they were young he said he prayed, "God, please don't let my son be a faggot and my daughter be a slut." He laughs, explaining, "And He didn't. He reversed it."

For the Bible Tells Me So! That's what it's called. Quite good. The problem with minority communities (a turn of phrase we do not often hear!) is that they tend to be relatively religious.

 

[Sir Robin Goodfellow]

Just curious as to why someone would speculate this athlete was dealing with sexuality issues. Is this something that's been rumoured about him before, or was it just how the conversation flowed?


I don't really know any black folks, or any "out" gay people, so I can't really offer much in that way. In the media, though, you never really see homosexual black people. You do see the stereotypical "flaming queer" hispanic male, usually played up for laughs.

 

[IMST]

In my particular minority community, we generally encourage homosexuals to be open about it and celebrate their sexuality.

My minority is homosexuals

 

[332nd]

Just curious as to why someone would speculate this athlete was dealing with sexuality issues. Is this something that's been rumoured about him before, or was it just how the conversation flowed?

It hasn't been rumored about him AFAIK but, the guy who brought it up is gay and swears by his "gaydar". I was just saying he might have serious mental problems and to be honest I was uncomfortable that he brought it up.

I don't really know any black folks, or any "out" gay people, so I can't really offer much in that way. In the media, though, you never really see homosexual black people. You do see the stereotypical "flaming queer" hispanic male, usually played up for laughs.

There are a few such as the guy in Chasing Amy or Blain and Antwain from the Men on Film sketch on In Living Color. Also there was a brief shot of the "down low" crowd on the cop shows like Law and Order.

 

[Hokulele]

In traditional and historical Polynesia, gender and gender roles were seen quite differently than in the West. This is an example. As the missionaries gained influence, homosexuality was stigmatized and discouraged. I haven't heard of too many issues locally recently, but that may be due to the type of people I spend time with. I do know a couple of Polynesians who are "out", and neither of them mentioned any problems with acceptance (one is a fairly well-known musician locally), and neither of them are shy about their orientation.

I wonder if it has anything to do with the religious diversity found out here (at least compared to the mainland U.S.).

 

[mrbaracuda]

The difficulty in coming out in the Black community gave rise to the "Down Low". For those that don't know the "Down Low" is a sub culture that means that one will not admit that one is gay. Thus there can be no safe sex. Safe sex would be "admitting" to being gay. Also this subculture tends to be very promiscuous and any sex with guys is deemed "freaky", not gay.

I don't get that part at all.

 

[Darat]

One of the reasons stated is that because these men do not identify as being gay (e.g. do not associate with what is considered the "gay community") even though they have unprotected anal sex with other men then the education programmes aimed at gay men (who have unprotected anal sex) fails to reach them.

 

[mrbaracuda]

Uh, that's a stupid reason. Sex-ed is sex-ed, whether it goes in the pooper or not, no?

 

[Delvo]

But we're talking about people who say that what they do ISN'T having sex. They'll talk about it in other terms, such as relieving stress and relaxing with their buddies (which might very well be a large part of the motivation for doing it, but distinctly avoids any mention of HOW they're relieving stress). It's a very strange and sad state of mind, seemingly near to a schizoid break.

I'm curious how the person who suggested this idea says his gaydar works. People who believe they can determine someone else's homosexuality if that other person doesn't claim to be homosexual must consider certain behaviors to be giveaways, but anyone can spot those behaviors. So someone in Young's position (a setting that's both very macho and very visible to the public) who exhibited them would have been called homosexual by others in public by now, and apparently hasn't been. Does the person who suspects that Young is homosexual go by different cues from the ones everybody else goes by?

 

[Darat]

I can't see why it is stupid reason.

 

[richardm]

Uh, that's a stupid reason. Sex-ed is sex-ed, whether it goes in the pooper or not, no?

One would have thought that they would have a basic idea of what makes safe sex, but the problem is that people do seem to simply forget about the importance of it if they're not reminded.

It is my understanding that when STDs are on the increase funds are targetted at the at-risk group. For example in Scotland at the moment the highest rate of new infections is (for the first time) in the over 35s*, so I'm expecting a leaflet through my door any day now.

So the point here is (I think) that these men would not be seen dead reading any literature targetted at gay men lest they be identified as gay, and so the idea of safe sex has slipped off their radar. And presumably the argument continues that they don't read any literature targetted at straight men because they know they're not straight (either that or the rates of infection are such that there is no material targetted at the straight men).

Edit: That over 35 group is quite a good example. We were getting started with sex at about the time HIV/AIDS was being identified as a major problem, so we had safe-sex pounded into us day and night (fnar fnar) - but time passes and we've apparently forgotten about it.

 

[cwalner]

I'm curious how the person who suggested this idea says his gaydar works. People who believe they can determine someone else's homosexuality if that other person doesn't claim to be homosexual must consider certain behaviors to be giveaways, but anyone can spot those behaviors. So someone in Young's position (a setting that's both very macho and very visible to the public) who exhibited them would have been called homosexual by others in public by now, and apparently hasn't been. Does the person who suspects that Young is homosexual go by different cues from the ones everybody else goes by?

If he is gay, yes. In general people who claim to have 'gaydar' are gay themselves and use it to pick out potential dating partners amongst the backdrop of a mostly hetero world. Often this involves looking not for direct clues of homosexuality, but the subtler clues of being in the closet. All the small deceptions, including self-deceptions that we ourselves practiced before we came out. Unforutnately, in my case, my gaydar is next to useless as the signal I get from it is overwhelmed by my wishdar.

 

[Darat]

I do think there is something to "gaydar" but as cwalner says it's nothing really more than noticing a few behaviours and forming a conclusion based on that. As an example - noticing who someone else notices in a group of people.

 

[richardm]

I do think there is something to "gaydar" but as cwalner says it's nothing really more than noticing a few behaviours and forming a conclusion based on that. As an example - noticing who someone else notices in a group of people.

Either that or you're getting interference from a gay weather balloon.

 

[Dancing David]

I don't get that part at all.

Well it boggles many.

There was this Oprah show where she had lots and lots of men who were 'down low' with homosexuality.

One gentleman said he had more sex with other men than he did women, but he was not gay.

Now an enlightened person might say 'well you are bi'.

the issue is that if people can't admit even to themselves that they are negaging in 'gay' sex and have to say things like "I prefer sex with men but i am not gay." then tow things happen:

1. They put their wives and girl friends at very high risk because they do NOT disclose this risky sexual activity.

2. They put themselves and their male partners at risk because they deny that they are engaging in risky sex.


It is not so much about the word gay but denying that you are entgaging in behaviors that might be labeld gay.

If you inject heroin into a vein and then say 'well I am not an IV drug user' it is a very similar situation.

What i think is more interesting in the OP is the segregation of gender identity, someone would think that a black man is gay because black men don't cry.

 

[Delvo]

So the point here is (I think) that these men would not be seen dead reading any literature targetted at gay men lest they be identified as gay, and so the idea of safe sex has slipped off their radar. And presumably the argument continues that they don't read any literature targetted at straight men because they know they're not straight (either that or the rates of infection are such that there is no material targetted at the straight men).

They say they ARE straight. That's one reason why whatever precautions they might take for sex with women are not necessarily taken with men; because then that would be about homosexual sex, which obviously can't be applied to them because these guys say they're straight and that stuff is just for guys who aren't. Whatever they do with men, they'll say it isn't sex or has none of sex's implications, because it can't be so, because they're straight.

 

[Bikewer]

Note that this was the excuse of our fine congressman in the "foot-tapping" scandal. No, not gay, says he. Just looking for some "stress relief".

As unfortunate as is the lot of homosexuals in the Black community, consider how much worse in some other minorities. Islam is really, seriously down on homosexuality, for instance.