Frontline: Secrets of the Vatican

[seayakin]

Frontline this week had an excellent expose on the Vatican - Secrets of the Vatican (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/). I'm wondering what other thought. I think for
me one of the takeaways was how much control the Vatican Curia exercised despite the Pope technically being an absolute monarch. Overall, it really provides a glimpse
into the greed and power of he Catholic church. The portion on the sex scandals in the Milwaukee Archdiocese is particularly damning. The victims not only endured the horror of the abuse but it sounds like the catholic church continues avoid any and all responsibility and operates in a vein to protect its assets. Most of this is not surprising to me. I grew up in an ultra Catholic family (although I'm feeling much better now thank you ).

I know my family members who are still ultra catholic would just dismiss the whole show as "sensationalism" if they bothered to watch.

Do you think the Catholic church is even capable of changing? (I do not think so)

 

[Foster Zygote]

It's on my DVR right now. I fought a bit of it, and it looked very interesting. I plan to watch it by this weekend.

 

[Brainache]

I have never been a fan of The Catholic Church, but I have to say I am very impressed with the current Pope.

I only just saw this:
http: //www.naijaurban.com/no-hell-fire-adam-eve-not-real-pope-francis-exposes/
And I got sucked in by a Hoax that was debunked months ago.

My Brain Hurts...

 

[nvidiot]

Skeptical atheist is skeptical...

 

[theprestige]

Statistically speaking, the Vatican has two Popes per square mile.

 

[Brainache]

I have never been a fan of The Catholic Church, but I have to say I am very impressed with the current Pope.

I only just saw this:
http://www.naijaurban.com/no-hell-fire-adam-eve-not-real-pope-francis-exposes/



How did I miss this bombshell?

Skeptical atheist is skeptical...

Yes.

Hook line and sinker....
http://www.snopes.com/politics/satire/francis.asp

I blame gullibility...

 

[Gord_in_Toronto]

Frontline this week had an excellent expose on the Vatican - Secrets of the Vatican (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/). I'm wondering what other thought. I think for
me one of the takeaways was how much control the Vatican Curia exercised despite the Pope technically being an absolute monarch. Overall, it really provides a glimpse
into the greed and power of he Catholic church. The portion on the sex scandals in the Milwaukee Archdiocese is particularly damning. The victims not only endured the horror of the abuse but it sounds like the catholic church continues avoid any and all responsibility and operates in a vein to protect its assets. Most of this is not surprising to me. I grew up in an ultra Catholic family (although I'm feeling much better now thank you ).

I know my family members who are still ultra catholic would just dismiss the whole show as "sensationalism" if they bothered to watch.

Do you think the Catholic church is even capable of changing? (I do not think so)

Thanks for reminding me about this show. I missed it last night but am now watching it on-line at http://video.pbs.org/video/2365187642/#

What a foul organization.

 

[seayakin]

Beyond your tu quoque, by what standard or metric did you determine which abuse was "worse?" Are you sure the abuse is over? How about the systemic cover-up?

Here's an interesting database: http://bishop-accountability.org/member/psearch.jsp

The show implied that the abuse is far from other and they are still covering up.

 

[Gord_in_Toronto]

Thanks for reminding me about this show. I missed it last night but am now watching it on-line at http://video.pbs.org/video/2365187642/#

What a foul organization.

Just finished watching it. My respect for Pope Francis is raised a little more (I already liked the guy ). Whether he has the power to actually make changes without bringing down the whole sorry edifice is another matter. I hope he tries.

 

[ljohnson]

I am a Protestant but

Frontline this week had an excellent expose on the Vatican - Secrets of the Vatican (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/). I'm wondering what other thought. I think for
me one of the takeaways was how much control the Vatican Curia exercised despite the Pope technically being an absolute monarch. Overall, it really provides a glimpse


Do you think the Catholic church is even capable of changing? (I do not think so)

I am a Protestant but I know a lot of lapsed Catholics and everyone of them have said that the Church didn't fulfill their needs, several mentioned that the Church kept up on their tithes but when a family member was sick, no one from the Church showed up to comfort them and one guy was a Deacon at his Church.
My wife is ex Catholic too and she says that one of the things that she hated was the fact that they didn't study the Bible (this was in the 60s), if you died without confession you went to purgatory and that there isn't any scriptural support for what Catholics believe such as the inerrancy of the Pope, Purgatory and not to mention the covered up abuse and the sheer amount of money the Church has. Granted they do spread it around but they want your tithe like a mob loan shark even if you are on a fixed income.
I also know several satisfied un-lapsed Catholics so I think it has a lot to do with wherever they go to Church.

 

[seayakin]

I am a Protestant but I know a lot of lapsed Catholics and everyone of them have said that the Church didn't fulfill their needs, several mentioned that the Church kept up on their tithes but when a family member was sick, no one from the Church showed up to comfort them and one guy was a Deacon at his Church.
My wife is ex Catholic too and she says that one of the things that she hated was the fact that they didn't study the Bible (this was in the 60s), if you died without confession you went to purgatory and that there isn't any scriptural support for what Catholics believe such as the inerrancy of the Pope, Purgatory and not to mention the covered up abuse and the sheer amount of money the Church has. Granted they do spread it around but they want your tithe like a mob loan shark even if you are on a fixed income.
I also know several satisfied un-lapsed Catholics so I think it has a lot to do with wherever they go to Church.

I'm not aware of the church tithing any more. My personal experience and what I know of my family's still active involvement (including a a brother who is a lay deacon) the Catholic church solicits donations but no longer assesses a tithe. The Mormon Church is the only religious organization that I'm aware of that actually tithes. This is not to say the Catholic Church does not do everything it can to secure and protect its wealth. However, it is a large, diverse and complicated organization and I think you have to look at the different entities carefully.

 

[Craig B]

Just finished watching it. My respect for Pope Francis is raised a little more (I already liked the guy ). Whether he has the power to actually make changes without bringing down the whole sorry edifice is another matter. I hope he tries.

Gorbachev turned out not to have that power. The edifice collapsed. Some things can't be reformed. I don't know if the Catholic Church is in that category. It's very resilient.

 

[Navigator]

It seems that homosexual predators have found refuge in this organisation and have been protected by the organisation and allowed to do this thing to young boys for a long time, even that outwardly the organisation claims homosexuals are sinful and will suffer retribution from their idea of god.

It is a sadder world for that.

 

[Dubious Dick]

It seems that homosexual predators have found refuge in this organisation and have been protected by the organisation and allowed to do this thing to young boys for a long time, even that outwardly the organisation claims homosexuals are sinful and will suffer retribution from their idea of god.

It is a sadder world for that.

Be careful! You appear to be equating homosexuals with paedophiles. Not equivalent.

 

[Navigator]

Be careful! You appear to be equating homosexuals with paedophiles. Not equivalent.

Let me elaborate for you then.

These acts against boys by men are homosexual.

"paedophiles" are just the headline word encompassing all acts of sexual predators against children by adults.

Your own response seems to suggest that homosexuals cannot be paedophiles, which is incorrect. The evidence shows otherwise.

 

[Craig4]

I watched and couldn't help but think about the quote from Poggio Bracciolini, a 15th Century papal secretary to John XXIII. He called the Papal Curria "the Lie Factory". Some things just don't change.

 

[tsig]

I watched and couldn't help but think about the quote from Poggio Bracciolini, a 15th Century papal secretary to John XXIII. He called the Papal Curria "the Lie Factory". Some things just don't change.

??

Pope John XXIII (Latin: Ioannes XXIII), born Angelo Giuseppe Roncalli (Italian pronunciation: [ˈandʒelo dʒuˈzɛppe roŋˈkalli]; 25 November 1881 – 3 June 1963), was Pope from 28 October 1958 to his death in 1963.

 

[bruto]

Let me elaborate for you then.

These acts against boys by men are homosexual.

"paedophiles" are just the headline word encompassing all acts of sexual predators against children by adults.

Your own response seems to suggest that homosexuals cannot be paedophiles, which is incorrect. The evidence shows otherwise.

If you think that's what his response suggests you're not reading it any more carefully than he read yours. Dubious Dick is making the routine, and generally unexceptionable observation that not all homosexuals are pedophiles. He may have read your post carelessly and not noticed the qualifying "predators" in it. But your response is so convoluted that it sounds as if you're disputing the basic statement that the orientation is not the crime.

Maybe you need a time out. Dubious Dick, Navigator qualified his statement by calling the parties "homosexual predators," thus not designating homosexuals as a group. Navigator, Dubious Dick made a statement that may not have been necessary, but was basically true.

Navigator, although homosexual acts seem to have gotten the most press, I think that abuse by priests includes heterosexual predation too, and your initial statement would probably have been more accurate and less subject to misunderstanding if you'd simply said "predators" without the orientation qualifier.

 

[theprestige]

I watched and couldn't help but think about the quote from Poggio Bracciolini, a 15th Century papal secretary to John XXIII. He called the Papal Curria "the Lie Factory". Some things just don't change.

Wouldn't the Papal Curria be "the Indian sauce factory"?

Maybe he was thinking of the Papal Curia.

 

[Darat]

It seems that homosexual predators have found refuge in this organisation and have been protected by the organisation and allowed to do this thing to young boys for a long time, even that outwardly the organisation claims homosexuals are sinful and will suffer retribution from their idea of god.

It is a sadder world for that.

Why single out "homosexual predators"? The RCC abuses were against males and females, by men and women.