Merged Freeman on the Land in America/lawful rebellion/sovereign citizens

[my ill will]

Just wondering if anyone in here has heard about it. I'll try to provide some insight.


Lawful Rebellion is basically a peaceful uprising of men and women in commonwealth nations who deny their consent to be governed, using notices and Claims of Right. In all representative governments, representation requires mutual consent and the government is bound by their own rules. If enough research on the relationship between common law and admiralty law is done, it is visible that we may exist completely free of all statutory obligations, restrictions, and restraints. "Free-man-on-the-Land"

A large section of this movement is dedicated to the commercial "Accepted for Value" remedy. There was a trust created in your person's name when you were registered as a child, and there is an actual bond tracking number on your birth certificate. This bond can be used for the purposes of setting-off debt, and actually aids your country in reducing the national debt. This method has been used by quite a few people, and obviously does not have much mainstream coverage as it has been hidden for a long time. But make no mistake, it is there and it works.

If anyone is interested, here is a video that will help you understand what I'm talking about. http://www.bbc5.tv/eyeplayer/articles/john-harris-its-illusion

By the way, I didn't see a "law" section so I posted it here. Feel free to move it!

edit: Yes, I see the recommended films at the bottom. Ignore them. I don't like conspiracy theories either.

 

[dudalb]

Just a bunch of John Galt wannabes.

 

[my ill will]

I don't understand. Can you elaborate?

 

[tomwaits]

I haven't seen the link as I'm at work and can't watch video, but this seems like an amusing mix of anarchism and tax protester junk.

 

[drkitten]

A large section of this movement is dedicated to the commercial "Accepted for Value" remedy. There was a trust created in your person's name when you were registered as a child, and there is an actual bond tracking number on your birth certificate. This bond can be used for the purposes of setting-off debt, and actually aids your country in reducing the national debt. This method has been used by quite a few people, and obviously does not have much mainstream coverage as it has been hidden for a long time. But make no mistake, it is there and it works.

Wow. Do you have any idea what the paragraph above actually means?

Because as far as I can tell, it's legalistic word salad.

As in, the words exist, but have no actual connection to each other. How does printing a number at the bottom of a birth certificate allow "setting-off debt"?

This is simply drivel.

 

[dudalb]

I haven't seen the link as I'm at work and can't watch video, but this seems like an amusing mix of anarchism and tax protester junk.

Like I said, a bunch of people who see themselves as Heros in an Ayn Rand Novel.

 

[my ill will]

I haven't seen the link as I'm at work and can't watch video, but this seems like an amusing mix of anarchism and tax protester junk.

Not quite. The common law applies to all people, anywhere, everywhere. It's the natural, universally accepted law. You cannot cause harm or loss or breach the peace or commit fraud in your contracts. It covers everything. Theft, murder, perjury, public nuisance, etc. Admiralty law (statutes, codes, regulations) are specifically restricted in their scope and applicability to the members of that society. A statute is defined as a legislated rule of society, given the force of law. A society is defined as a number of people joined by mutual consent to deliberate, determine, and act for a common purpose. So, statutes are laws to people who have given their consent to be a part of the society. It's like if you have lived on a piece of land your entire life, and some organization came in, claiming to be the government of the land, and tried to get you to pay taxes and follow their policies. You'd tell them they had no jurisdiction, no authority. Because they don't. It's like saying marijuana is illegal in the United States and trying to enforce that in Amsterdam. Doesn't work. No jurisdiction. And it's not because it's a separate piece of land. The fundamental laws of the land provide that all men are created equal and that governments are instilled among men to protect inalienable rights, and that when government becomes destructive of these rights, it is the right of the people to alter/abolish it. You can declare sovereignty and there is nothing anyone can do about it without a gun to your head.

Wow. Do you have any idea what the paragraph above actually means?

Because as far as I can tell, it's legalistic word salad.

As in, the words exist, but have no actual connection to each other. How does printing a number at the bottom of a birth certificate allow "setting-off debt"?

This is simply drivel.

Actually, yes, I do. The number is generally on the back of the birth certificate and it is evidence of a bond created in your name. In America, for example... FDR created a trust in 1933 (and there is also a trust created by the Constitution) of which the people are the beneficiaries. The Secretary of Treasury is the fiduciary of this bond and it directs the funds in it to your local representative. I think it would be your state's Congress member, not entirely sure. In Canada it's your provincial representative in Parliament. You can send notice directing these funds for debt set-off. Several people have done this with their student loans, credit card debts, etc, and it has worked. The debt simply moves to zero.

 

[dudalb]

I don't understand. Can you elaborate?

Yeah. They think taxes are evil, and seem to want to go off and found their own little paradise with no government. Just like the movement that John Galt led in "Atlas Shrugged".

 

[dudalb]

my ill will is making my head spend. In one section he advocates The Venus Project, which advocates the abolition of money and private property, and now he seem to support a de facto Objectivist political movement. Anti Establishmentism is a interesting phenenmenon.

 

[Pantaz]

Just Google "bond tracking number birth certificate" for all KINDS of crazy!

 

[drkitten]

The common law applies to all people, anywhere, everywhere.

Except in France.

Or Germany.

Or Japan.

Really, the "common law" only holds in the UK or the former colonies of the UK.

It's the natural, universally accepted law.

Except in France. Or Germany. Or,....

A statute is defined as a legislated rule of society, given the force of law.

Okay, I guess.

At least, not as wrong as

A society is defined as a number of people formed by mutual consent to deliberate, determine, and act for a common purpose.

Because, of course, most "societies" do not have a "common purpose" (what's the purpose of Kidlington, Oxon.? Or France?

And, of course, people do not necessarily "consent" to the formation of a society; most extant societies long predate any of the people who currently make it. Kidlington existed long before I was born and will continue to exist long after I am dead.

It's like if you have lived on a piece of land your entire life, and some organization came in, claiming to be the government of the land, and tried to get you to pay taxes and follow their policies. You'd tell them they had no jurisdiction, no authority.

And I'd be wrong. And the reason I know I'd be wrong is because something like this happened -- the local city decided to expand and annex some of the neighboring unincorporated land. And they had the (state-given) authority to do so. And when the residents sued, the state courts told them to go suck wind.

You can declare sovereignty and there is nothing anyone can do about it

Nor is there any reason that anyone should do anything about it. Your declaration has no legal, moral, or social weight. You can declare yourself sovereign. You can also declare yourself Batman, for all I care.

Of course, if you think that just because you declared yourself Batman -- or sovereign -- you have the ability to wander around at night breaking into buildings in search of criminals to battle, you're in for a sad disappointment. And I suspect that the next delusional declaration you make will be to claim to be the warden.

 

[drkitten]

The number is generally on the back of the birth certificate and it is evidence of a bond created in your name. In America, for example... FDR created a trust in 1933 (and there is also a trust created by the Constitution) of which the people are the beneficiaries. The Secretary of Treasury is the fiduciary of this bond and it directs the funds in it to your local representative. I think it would be your state's Congress member, not entirely sure. In Canada it's your provincial representative in Parliament. You can send notice directing these funds for debt set-off. Several people have done this with their student loans, credit card debts, etc, and it has worked. The debt simply moves to zero.

So, the answer is "no, you don't know what that paragraph means."

Thought so.

 

[my ill will]

my ill will is making my head spend. In one section he advocates The Venus Project, which advocates the abolition of money and private property, and now he seem to support a de facto Objectivist political movement. Anti Establishmentism is a interesting phenenmenon.

Haha.

Well, I wouldn't consider it a de facto objectivist political movement at all. In fact, all courts are de facto. They are UCC courts, not Constitutional. It's not "objectivist" or "political" either. It's actually just men and women enjoying the full scope of freedom, for there is a way to have it.

 

[tomwaits]

I don't think he was using "common law" in the strict legal sense, he was using it to mean universal human law.

ETA: ok nvm, apparently he was talking about english common law...

 

[drkitten]

I don't think he was using "common law" in the strict legal sense, he was using it to mean universal human law.

I don't think he knows what he's using words to mean. And if he's trying to distinguish "statute" from "common law," then he better be using "common law" in the strict legal sense, or he's committing a rather blatant fallacy of amphi-whatever.

 

[jj]

What in the name of Ed is this on about?

This reads like some nightmare confutation of Rothbard with James Taggart.

 

[tomwaits]

I don't think he knows what he's using words to mean. And if he's trying to distinguish "statute" from "common law," then he better be using "common law" in the strict legal sense, or he's committing a rather blatant fallacy of amphi-whatever.

Yes, he's using a certain tactic of tax protesters. Words are magic.

 

[my ill will]

Except in France.

Or Germany.

Or Japan.

Really, the "common law" only holds in the UK or the former colonies of the UK.

The common law holds in all common law jurisdictions. I probably shouldn't have said everyone, everywhere. US, UK, Canada, NZ, Holland, etc...

Okay, I guess.

At least, not as wrong as



Because, of course, most "societies" do not have a "common purpose" (what's the purpose of Kidlington, Oxon.? Or France?

And, of course, people do not necessarily "consent" to the formation of a society; most extant societies long predate any of the people who currently make it. Kidlington existed long before I was born and will continue to exist long after I am dead.

Actually those definitions are from Black's law dictionary which is accepted in Supreme Court cases.

Nor is there any reason that anyone should do anything about it. Your declaration has no legal, moral, or social weight. You can declare yourself sovereign. You can also declare yourself Batman, for all I care.

Yes, it does have legal weight, and it has been proven. Ever heard of a Claim of Right? Or estoppel by acquiescence? Default judgement?

Of course, if you think that just because you declared yourself Batman -- or sovereign -- you have the ability to wander around at night breaking into buildings in search of criminals to battle, you're in for a sad disappointment. And I suspect that the next delusional declaration you make will be to claim to be the warden.

Well generally Free-men-on-the-Land declare their peaceful intentions and follow them, and if they don't, they get ****ed like the rest of us. It doesn't give you any new powers, just allows you to enjoy your inalienable rights.

 

[Toke]

Not quite. The common law applies to all people, anywhere, everywhere. It's the natural, universally accepted law. You cannot cause harm or loss or breach the peace or commit fraud in your contracts. It covers everything. Theft, murder, perjury, public nuisance, etc.

Never heard of it. Who made and enforces it?

 

[my ill will]

So, the answer is "no, you don't know what that paragraph means."

Thought so.

You are providing zero rebuttal, just saying I don't know what it means. What the **** are you talking about?

I'd consider reading some success stories here.
http://thinkfreeforums.org/viewforum.php?f=71