MRC:
According to my worldview, my brain is probably making the choices. I have evidence that choices are made, and all I have evidence for is doing it is my brain.
No here’s what you have EVIDENCE for:
Atoms obey TLOP.
You are made of atoms.
You obey TLOP.
The evidence doesn’t say ANYTHING about “You” making “choices”. The EVIDENCE says that ONLY TLOP makes choices.
MRC:
So parsimony requires me to assume that my brain is making them.
In the same way that “parsimony” leads a Christian to believe that the Bible is inerrant.
I can test this: If I temporarily impair the function of my brain, e.g. by getting drunk, it turns out that my capability to make decisions is also impaired. If I get more drunk, it gets worse. When I get sober, it works as before. If some external force was really making the decisions, why would me being drunk affect it?
Alcohol is simply a meme. You “get drunk”, and it has an effect on your MPB algorithm. It alters your perceptions, it alters your memories of your perceptions. All of your “decisions” (expressions) are simply the outputs of your MPB routine. Obviously if your algorithm is temporarily altered so will your outputs be temporarily altered.
MRC:
My evidence for my choices being real is that they have an impact on the real world. As you are fond of mentioning, I dont run red lights because I find that such decisions are not sensible. More pertinently, I make decisions based on my personal priorities, for example which things to buy within my budget. The fact that there is a reason for these decisions does not mean that they are beyond my control.
[i.e. the Earth is PROVEN Flat and motionless because that is how it looks.]
Franko:
If the “reason” is TLOP made you do it, then they are BEYOND YOUR CONTROL.
MRC:
This is called begging the question: The statment tries to prove its assumption by assuming it is true. Tlop has, however, not bee nproved to be a conscious entity capable of control. Basically, to me and most other people, tlop is a description of how the world behaves.
Atoms obey TLOP.
You are made of atoms.
You obey TLOP!
How am “I” begging the question? You are using your initial perception as your “evidence” that things are ALWAYS EXACTLY as they appear.
That’s not why I call “science” Mr.C.
Basically, to me and most other people, tlop is a description of how the world behaves.
“most people”??? … so once again your “evidence” is that “most people” agree with You? … and here I thought that “most people” were Theists who believed in a deity?
Franko:
Okay, so “free will’ is not an illusion either, it is the sensation of perceiving your Destiny as it passes you by as dictated by the immutable laws of physics.
MRC:
Except that my decisions influence my destiny.
Only because “your decisions” were predetermined by the immutable laws of physics, and the Initial state.
… or are you once again claiming you used your magic powers to determine who your parents would be, and when and where you were born?
Would you still be exactly the same “person” if TLOP had arranged for you to be born in Ancient Rome? How about if a quirk of Fate had lead to you having the DNA of a Toad instead of the DNA of “MRC”?
You seem to want to ignore the fact that the crucial decisions that made YOU, YOU were not made by YOU at all.
Franko:
It’s logical because it obeys logical rules (just like You)
MRC:
Ehr, yes. And?
Franko:
You can “predict”? … and here I thought prediction was impossible due to all that acausality???
MRC:
Yes, I have noticed that you dont understand acausality.
Yes, I’m funny about not being able to claim that I can comprehend concepts that are inherently incomprehensible by there very nature and definition (like a 4-sided triangle). Unfortunately for You there is no evidence of “acausality” other than your overactive pessimistic imagination.
I also like how you consistently claim that Mathematics (entirely Deterministic) is actually evidence for “Acausality”.
Acausal = With logical (comprehensible/conceivable) cause.
Random = With logical (comprehensible/conceivable) cause.
Magic = With logical (comprehensible/conceivable) cause.
Supernatual = With logical (comprehensible/conceivable) cause.
Mystical = With logical (comprehensible/conceivable) cause.
Face it MRC, You a Mystic!
Franko:
You just don’t understand what makes an observer an observer … do you MRC? Hehehe …
MRC:
Observing makes an observer an observer. Logic and testing makes an observer a scientific observer.
No, no, no … that’s not what I meant. I meant in terms of QM. What qualifies as an “Observer” – capable of collapsing the waveform? You know … Human collapses the waveform of a particle detector, particle detector in turn collapses the waveform of a photon as it approaches the double slit.
Franko:
You have no evidence for anything other than atoms (TLOP) "making decisions"/"choices", as long as you have no evidence, it remains a belief which, unlike colors is indiscernible from illusion.
MRC:
Aren't you mixing it a little here? I dont claim anything but that my physical brain makes decisions. And I back it up with evidence (see above). Incidentially, my physical brain is more than atoms. It is also information.
Claiming that the Universe is made of
Information instead of “
Matter” is Logical Deism, MRC … not A-Theism/Pseudo-Materialism.
And You still haven’t presented ANY evidence for anything capable of making a “decision”. You need to do some homework. There is ample evidence that TLOP is telling you what to do, well before you are consciously aware you are about to do it. You seem to want to ignore science when it contradicts your carefully crafted religious dogma.
) observe that it does matter if we make good decisions or not. The fact that various factors narrow down the practical range of available options does not change the fact that we need to make decisions.
