Free energy with magnetism

[Lord Kenneth]

I thought this would be an interesting share:

Magnets are free energy. How much energy does it take for a magnet to hold itself to a piece of metal? None... it's simply does it as a natural law.

When placed in the right position, it is VERY possible to have energy output from no energy input. Whether you want to argue that it is truely "perpetual motion" is a different debate... but it is indeed possible.

Edit: From someone who likes to argue against the "norm"... you don't hold true to your standard. I believe you like to argue against god, which is typical from a 15 year old

(I have no idea what he is talking about in the edit. What a loon!)

That's laughable.

Magnets do not create energy. It's just part of electromagnetic forces. It's like saying a rock created energy by staying suspended on a cliff instead of falling due to gravity.

Magnets, like gravity, are always in effect-- they just loose strength over space very quickly.

So you would argue that gravity uses energy? Obviously not.

The concept isn't ridiculous at all if you would speak to the right people. It's ridiculous to you, because you have no clue on how to create such a machine or how to utilize the power of gravity and magnets.

Once again, please don't say ANYTHING is impossible... especially when you haven't even graduated from highschool yet. Any true scientist will tell you NOTHING is impossible, it just hasn't been proven possible YET. (The same goes for a theory that's "always true"... it just hasn't been proven incorrect YET)

(later..)

Learn a bit of physics? Lol if you only knew how much physics I've had here in COLLEGE Kenneth, it's what's above the hellhole you refer to as highschool.

I've also been studying theoretical physics since I was 14, I DO have a very good idea about magnets and about theoretical machines.

Whether you want to argue that machine made of magnets than can act as an engine or a generator is truely a perpetual motion machine or not is one thing (which Crufix did)... but denying it altogether is just plain ignorant when you admit you are sketchy on the concept.

Also, there's much more than your textbooks. There's a difference in learning and "knowing" and actually UNDERSTANDING. Have a few of the tests I've taken here and you'd see what I mean about really understanding concepts.

 

[Lord Kenneth]

Can someone please explain to him why this is impossible? I don't know much about magnetics.

 

[Yahweh]

The sun provides plenty free energy at no cost... thats about as close to perpetual motion as I can think at the moment...

 

[Lord Kenneth]

The sun provides plenty free energy at no cost... thats about as close to perpetual motion as I can think at the moment...

Free energy refers to "energy being created". This is obviously not the case in the sun, as the sun is a closed system that will eventually run out of gases. That's what the sun "runs" on, or more accurately, is-- burning gases.

He tried to talk about magnets in a circle making a wheel spin. He doesn't realize the magnets would cancel each other out-- there would be no spinning.

 

[Yahweh]

Good old thermodynamics...

From http://www.wondermagnet.com/dev/magfaq.html

Perpetual motion machines are one of the true holy grails of physics; unfortunately, perpetual motion machines do NOT EXIST according to the currently accepted theories. They are denied by the Three Laws of Thermodynamics, which are proven by statistical mechanics, which is derived from quantum mechanics, which has been verified experimentally enough that it would be silly to deny it!

The First Law of Thermodynamics states that Energy is Conserved. This means that the total energy of a closed system must remain constant. The universe, considered as a closed system, thus has constant energy.

Energy exists in many forms: as heat, kinetic (motion) energy, and potential (gravitational, electric, and magnetic) energy, to name a few. The energy can change from one form to another. It can also pass from one system to another. Still, the total energy of a closed system will always be constant. You can neither create nor destroy energy; it always moves elsewhere.

The Second Law of Thermodynamics states that The entropy of a closed system must always increase. The entropy is a measure of the disorder of a system. If you consider the universe itself as a closed system, then the entropy of the universe must always increase. Therefore, the universe is continually moving towards a state of greater disorder!

Consider a glass of water, sitting initially on a table. You decide to push it off the edge and it shatters into fragments. It is now in a more disordered state, so it has greater entropy. The process can never reverse itself; you can't reassemble the glass and put the water back in it.

Now a perpetual motion machine has, by definition, moving parts. The motion results in the transfer of heat through friction and air resistance. This results in a loss of energy by the device; the First Law implies that the total energy of the universe is conserved, so the energy is actually being transferred elsewhere.

Assuming you don't add energy to this system, its energy will continually decrease and its entropy will likewise increase. Eventually it will slow and stop. Therefore, there is no such thing as a perpetual motion machine.

However, you're welcome to try...

(That quote isnt too large is it?)

 

[Eos of the Eons]

How about those magnets you can buy to put in your shoes and stuff. I saw a show on Discovery channel about them. They couldn't even hold a piece of paper onto a fridge. They are very weak.

Not only that, but they supposedly 'attract iron' or whatever...in order to work...energy blah blah...

That would mean the iron in your blood would cause your blood cells to explode as it leaves because the magnet (if it did work) would draw the iron to it.

Somebody tried to push them on me to help my son who has tourettes syndrome.

They apparently cure cancer too:

http://sleepdisorders.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http://www.stopcancer.com/000/011.htm

A negative magnetic field (north or negative side) can function like an antibiotic in helping to destroy bacterial, fungal, and viral infections," says Dr. Philpott, "by promoting oxygenation and lowering the body's acidity

Um, oxygenation, the cure for cancer...hmm, why didn't I ever figure out such an easy tactic?


The usual quackery of testimonials instead of actual proof again.

 

[Earthborn]

What is really important about any perpetual motion machine is Stevin's principle: does the machine change state in any way, or is the end result practically the same as the beginning? If it would not change its state, it will not run.

You can imagine a very simple magnetic engine. Suppose we have two bar magnets, connected with a plastic tube. One is attracted to the other and 'wants' to move to the other, but since there is a plastic tube between them, it would push the other away from it as it moves. The machine would look something like this: NS-NS. Does the machine continue to move forward? Or does nothing in the relationship between the two magnets change, making them stand still?

Most magnetic engines suffer the same problem. Only if some of the magnets are replaced with electromagnets which can switch polarity constantly would you get any actual motion. But then you just have an electric motor, no free energy device.

Free energy refers to "energy being created". This is obviously not the case in the sun, as the sun is a closed system that will eventually run out of gases. That's what the sun "runs" on, or more accurately, is-- burning gases.

Actually the sun is not a closed system, as it can freely radiate its energy away. Also, the sun does create energy, at the expense of matter. Its heat comes from nuclear reactions. So for more than one reason the old Laws of Thermodynamics don't quite apply.

He tried to talk about magnets in a circle making a wheel spin. He doesn't realize the magnets would cancel each other out-- there would be no spinning.

Ask him if he has a working model. Or at least a detailed design.

Would also be nice if you posted a link of the site where you got the quotes from, so others can see what the context is of what you have quoted.