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Formal Auschwitz gas chambers debate

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Sergey_Romanov said:
http://p067.ezboard.com/frodohforumfrm23.showMessage?topicID=26.topic
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I can only take so much revisionism, even the watered down stuff these guys are presenting.

At one point they ask for a rather odd piece of evidence:

"All we require is a wartime order for the extermination of the Jews"

What do they need? They have the meeting notes where several top officials determined cause and technique (as dramatized in the movie 'Conspiracy'). Do they expect to find this:?

"Dear Everyone in Germany,

Please start killing all the Jews.

Love,
Hitler"

:rolleyes:
 
What do they need? They have the meeting notes where several top officials determined cause and technique (as dramatized in the movie 'Conspiracy'). Do they expect to find this:?
Click to expand...

I haven't seen this film, but, as I understand, this is about the Wannsee conference. It's nothing but a dramatization, there is not a word about methods of killing in the minutes and even references to murder are veiled.
 
Yes, the phrases "total solution" and "final solution" were in heavy use. I have a hard time thinking these terms were in use for forced migration to Russia, especially in lighto f the lack of evidence of any plans to move anybody anywhere except a Concentration Camp.
 
Sergey_Romanov,

What, exactly, is it you want to discuss?

And please refrain from opening threads about the same subject.
 
FYI, Sergey, it's bad form to post the same thread in more than one forum.

Dammit, Claus, that is the second time in two days you've beaten me to it when saying the same thing. Get out of my mind!
 
kookbreaker said:
Yes, the phrases "total solution" and "final solution" were in heavy use. I have a hard time thinking these terms were in use for forced migration to Russia, especially in lighto f the lack of evidence of any plans to move anybody anywhere except a Concentration Camp.
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Well, indeed, the biggest problem for "revisionist" face are the lost Jews. Where are they? Some deniers speculate that Stalin put them into GULAG after the war where they were killed, but, of course, GULAG documents refute this idiocy.

However, both the phrases "total solution" and "the final solution of the Jewish question" were initially used by the Nazis to denote deportation to the East, which was the real plan indeed. Things changed in the autumn of 1941. I recommend Browning's "Origins of the Final Solution", in which he traces the evolution of the Nazi policy.

These initial documents give deniers a chance to claim that to the last day Nazis only planned to deport Jews to the East and that's what these phrases always meant.
 
TragicMonkey said:
Dammit, Claus, that is the second time in two days you've beaten me to it when saying the same thing. Get out of my mind!
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I will! What a dirty - but rather empty - place...!!!
 
It doesn't matter as long as you're clean. Just leave your clothes by the door and have a nice invigorating shower. I'll lock the door behind you, just to keep you safe.
 
The only evidence I have of the Holocaust is that provided by my Grandfather when he described finding a concentration camp in Germany during the closing months of WWII.

Of course if you want to explain the thousands of Jewish corpses as being part of some ghastly mistake rather than a deliberate act, then I suppose we're arguing motivation rather than fact.

I would imagine that any seasoned denier would anyway write off any document of the kind you describe as being a fake.
 
Deborah E. Lipstadt wrote a book called "Denying the Holocaust" that does a pretty good job of debunking the revisionist arguments and the personalities that advance them.

I used to spend a lot of time debating these types until I figured out their goal was the debate and the attention it created and not actually learning anything about this period of history.
 
For me the question is are the Holocaust revisionists engaging in an honest questioning of mainstream history with regard to the holocaust or are they just serving as conspiracy theory gadflies attempting to sway public opinion by dragging a discussion down into a battle over minutia that obscures the basic truths of the overall situation.

After reading through quite a bit of the material you linked to and an article in Wikipedia, It still looks to me like the latter is the case.

Conspiracy theorists abound on thousands of subjects and their approach is quite similar I think. Rather than an attempt assess available evidence in an unbiased way, they attempt to turn the discussion into a review of some isolated minutia which they have become experts on. Their thought seems to be that if the particular piece of minutia that they are hanging their argument on can be shown to favor their view then the other available evidence can be discarded based on the theory that if some evidence is tainted than all evidence is tainted.

Right now it looks like the holocaust revisionists are nothing more than routine conspiracy theory wackos whose arguments and discussions have little value if one is attempting to determine the truth of the situation.

Do you disagree?
 
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