Flu symptoms

CBL4

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I am just recovering from the flu and I have a few questions about the symptoms. I am just curious which chemicals (or whatever) are responsible for the symptoms.

1) While you have the flu, you cannot think clearly. Is this do to the fever or is something else involved? Follow up: Why does a hot brain think less clearly?
2) What causes the achiness in joints?
3) After the fever breaks, you have very little endurance. Why?

Thanks,

CBL
 
The simple and short answer, my friend, is cytokines. They are responsible for just about everything you feel during the flu, from the fever to the aches and pains to the lack of endurance after it's over. Cytokines put you in a hypermetabolic state. Cytokines martial the defense mechanisms in the body. And, cytokines serve to signal your brain that you need to take a breather while you're fighting off the bug.

The big players of the cytokines are the interleukins (IL-1, for example, causes the fever), tumor necrosis factor (TNF), and the interferons (INF).

Want to know more, look here: http://microvet.arizona.edu/Courses/MIC419/Tutorials/cytokines.html

-TT
 
TT- Pardon this off the point quibble. The question is genuine though.

You use the word "martial" as a verb. I would use "marshal".

Is this correct US usage, or just a typo on your part?
 
Soapy Sam said:
TT- Pardon this off the point quibble. The question is genuine though.

You use the word "martial" as a verb. I would use "marshal".

Is this correct US usage, or just a typo on your part?

Typo. Mea culpa.

-TT
 
ThirdTwin,

Thanks for the info. I was unaware of cytokines.

I am not sure this is a meaningful question or not but are the symptoms a side affect of the cytokines or are they part of the defense? I can see that it would useful for me to rest after the flu but I am not sure about the benefit of body aches. As to fever, I read a newspaper report a few years ago that said that fever was useful in fighting off diseases and taking medicine to reduce fever actually reduced the body's ability to fight infection. Do you know if this is correct?

Also, does fever cause the inability to think clearly? Or is it some chemical or is a combination?

Thank you,

CBL
 
CBL4 said:
I am not sure this is a meaningful question or not but are the symptoms a side affect of the cytokines or are they part of the defense?

The only answer to this question, and unfortunately it's somewhat cagey, is simply "yes". The cytokines invoke a physiologic response. These are, for various reasons, necessary in fighting off the infection. So, they are both the causative agent of the symptoms you feel and part of the defense. Make sense? Obviously we have evolved in such a way that this is both a physiologic and functional consequence of their action upon our bodies.

CBL4 said:
I can see that it would useful for me to rest after the flu but I am not sure about the benefit of body aches.

If you have body aches, you don't feel like moving around much. If you don't feel like moving around much, your body's energy resources can be focused on healing. Remember, it requires a lot of energy to fend off an invading virus. If you are using that energy to instead run around and, say, hunt wooly mammoth, you're either much more likely to have a prolonged course of the infection and/or succumb to it. If your body is aching, your much more likely to sit/lay still until the aches go away.

CBL4 said:
As to fever, I read a newspaper report a few years ago that said that fever was useful in fighting off diseases and taking medicine to reduce fever actually reduced the body's ability to fight infection. Do you know if this is correct?

Well, fever is a physiologic response that is a by-product of the hypermetabolic state. Fever response is controlled by IL-1's action in the hypothalamus. But, start with the concept of what exactly causes a fever to occur. Recall that mitochondria are the main energy factories within the cells producing ATP as the main energy store. This process is not 100% efficient, and the by-product of the chemical reactions is heat. In the normally regulated body, this gives us a mean core temperature of 37.0C/98.6F. If the control mechanisms are altered or deregulated by a supervening mechanism (in this case IL-1), then the mitochondria can go into overdrive and, as a result, the body's temperature rises due to the increased reaction within the mitochondria.

Now, whether or not the temperature itself actually helps eliminate virus(es) is still a subject of debate. There is some speculation that an increased core temperature may partially inhibit, or at least diminish the efficiency, of certain intracellular replication mechanisms of specific viral proteins. Remember, viruses invade cells and take over the cellular machinery of the host cell in order to make new viruses. If excess heat intereferes with or slows down this process, this may give the body's defensive mechanisms more time to act. Again, this is mostly speculation.

So, whether or not the fever is actually beneficial in expediting the elimination of the virus remains arguable. It clearly is, though, a by-product of the hypermetabolic state induced as the body "ramps up" to fight the infection.

CBL4 said:
Also, does fever cause the inability to think clearly? Or is it some chemical or is a combination?

Theoretically, you could have a fever so high that your native proteins begin to denature. There is supposedly the "threshold" temperature (roughly 107F) where certain stuctural proteins will start to break-down. However, this is not the case during the normal course of a fever. But, since you are in a hypermetabolic state during fever, it is more likely that everything is a little "wacky" (that's the official scientific term, BTW :D) from a physiologic standpoint, and your brain's functioning at a higher than normal level. As the metabolic demand increases, so do the metabolic respiratory by-products. I can only speculate that this a combination of these two things are what causes the "foggy" feeling and the fever dreams that people. I'm not sure that anyone really knows at this point. So, to reiterate, that is speculation.

-TT

(edit: numerous typos... probably more still there)
 
In other words,
1) Fevers probably do not make mind cloudy but are a result of the same set of chemical that make my mind cloudy.
2) Fever reducing medicines will have little or no affect on my body's ability to fight off the infection. I should take them if I want to feel a little better. I avoided them but we gave them to my 18 month daughter because she seemed so pathetic.

Thanks for the information. I am not sure what I will do with it but it is interesting to learn more about anything.

CBL
 
CBL4 said:
In other words,
1) Fevers probably do not make mind cloudy but are a result of the same set of chemical that make my mind cloudy.
2) Fever reducing medicines will have little or no affect on my body's ability to fight off the infection. I should take them if I want to feel a little better. I avoided them but we gave them to my 18 month daughter because she seemed so pathetic.

Thanks for the information. I am not sure what I will do with it but it is interesting to learn more about anything.

CBL

That's about right. For what it's worth, we pretty much uniformly treat fevers in the hospital with Tylenol. You should just be sure to avoid giving aspirin to children for fever. Acetaminophen is the drug of choice in treating childhood fever.

-TT
 

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