Finally some evidence of voter suppression

Sane said:
I'm surprised Kevin Lowe wasn't the first to report this...

I only check the news on election stuff every few days at most these days. Frankly, interesting developments just aren't coming thick and fast.

As DavidJames said, incidents like this should be treated very seriously indeed. They probably won't be, though.
 
The Central Scrutinizer said:
Him and Ion have been awfully quiet since the whole Ohio "conspiracy" blew up in their faces.
It's fair to say that, indeed.

Why?

I read a confirmation today in The San Diego Union Tribune -a paper that I don't buy anymore but grab it in restaurants since before the election it endorsed Bush, so it's a pro-Bush paper- of what Kevin and me we were showing, under 'Campaign by election chiefs faces scrutiny of state officials' in page A6:

"...The issue has risen to prominence because of Blackwell, who as Ohio secretary of state oversaw the election in the state that clinched Bush's re-election. Among other things, he tried to enforce an old rule requiring voter registration forma to be printed on 80-pound paper and was accused of trying to suppress the black vote by rejecting ballots cast in the wrong precint..."

(Note: Blackwell is black, but this statement by a pro-Bush paper still shows him as a traitor to blacks voting in Ohio, and ultimately in U.S. election)

and:

"...The criticism is similar to what happened in 2000 when former Florida Secretary of State Katherine Harris was vilified by Democrats for serving as Bush's campaign co-chair while certifying him the winner while the Gore campaign was seeking recounts..."

All of you in this forum who voted for Bush, you don't begin to realize how you take a step backwards in civilization values when you voted for Bush compared to having voted for Kerry -or even better, Dean, had Dean made it through the Democrat primaries-.

Economic policies, international diplomacy, life, they are at almost 180 degrees apart between Bush and Kerry, and squarely at 180 degrees apart between Bush and Dean, with Dean and Kerry being better choices than Bush.
 
The San Diego Union Tribune -a paper that I don't buy anymore but grab it in restaurants since before the election it endorsed Bush, so it's a pro-Bush paper-

1). I'm sure they're devastated, Ion.

2). True to your usual parasitical view of life, you didn't stop reading the paper in protest for their endorsement of Bush... you just stopped paying for it.

You're not the kind of guy to make any sort of protest that might, God forbid, actually mean that you must deny yourself anything.

Ladies and gentlemen: the "progressive" attitude in action.
 
Skeptic said:
The San Diego Union Tribune -a paper that I don't buy anymore but grab it in restaurants since before the election it endorsed Bush, so it's a pro-Bush paper-

1). I'm sure they're devastated, Ion.

2). True to your usual parasitical view of life, you didn't stop reading the paper in protest for their endorsement of Bush... you just stopped paying for it.

You're not the kind of guy to make any sort of protest that might, God forbid, actually mean that you must deny yourself anything.

Ladies and gentlemen: the "progressive" attitude in action.
Ladies and gentlemen: The magnanimous booster for the "winning team" shows us their true colours.
 
The Central Scrutinizer said:
Him and Ion have been awfully quiet since the whole Ohio "conspiracy" blew up in their faces.
Hmmmm. It's more like the question of who erased Nixon's tape - one of those "we will never really know the truth unless maybe someone confesses" type of situations.
 
Zep said:
Hmmmm. It's more like the question of who erased Nixon's tape - one of those "we will never really know the truth unless maybe someone confesses" type of situations.

Yes. Just like the moon landing hoax. We may never know the truth about that, unless someone confesses.
 
Skeptic said:
The San Diego Union Tribune -a paper that I don't buy anymore but grab it in restaurants since before the election it endorsed Bush, so it's a pro-Bush paper-

1). I'm sure they're devastated, Ion.

2). True to your usual parasitical view of life, you didn't stop reading the paper in protest for their endorsement of Bush... you just stopped paying for it.

You're not the kind of guy to make any sort of protest that might, God forbid, actually mean that you must deny yourself anything.

Ladies and gentlemen: the "progressive" attitude in action.

Little emperors make the best revolutionaries.
:rolleyes:
 
Zep said:
Hmmmm. It's more like the question of who erased Nixon's tape - one of those "we will never really know the truth unless maybe someone confesses" type of situations.

That's basically it at this stage. The recount was a flawed test protocol, because election officials in some areas engaged in a number of illegalities which subverted the recount process. We don't know what a fair and complete recount would have shown because there wasn't one. Nor does anyone seem interested in punishing the people who broke the laws in this case.

Since it seems unlikely that there will be a proper recount, a criminal investigation or an audit of the voting computers by competent computer forensics experts it looks like we'll never know what happened without a convenient miracle.
 
Kevin_Lowe said:
That's basically it at this stage. The recount was a flawed test protocol, because election officials in some areas engaged in a number of illegalities which subverted the recount process. We don't know what a fair and complete recount would have shown because there wasn't one. Nor does anyone seem interested in punishing the people who broke the laws in this case.

Since it seems unlikely that there will be a proper recount, a criminal investigation or an audit of the voting computers by competent computer forensics experts it looks like we'll never know what happened without a convenient miracle.

Same as the moon landing hoax. It's funny how these loony conspiracy "theories" all tend to be the same.
 
Skeptic said:
Ladies and gentlemen: the "progressive" attitude in action.
Mighty broad brush you're swinging there, Skeptic. Make sure you don't splash some of that nasty paint on yourself.
 
The Central Scrutinizer said:
Same as the moon landing hoax. It's funny how these loony conspiracy "theories" all tend to be the same.
Not the same, really.

In the case of the "moon hoax", the evidence exists and is freely available and patently obvious. It can be examined by anyone, even a nobody like me on the other side of the world. If I draw other conclusions, that's my problem, not one of evidence.

In the case of Ohio, there's NO evidence to work with. Just a black-box sort of thing - votes went in, results came out, what was the clear evidence of the process positively and rationally linking one to the other??? Like everyone, until we have all the evidence, speculating with what IS available is all we have been doing. And what is available leaves open a whole heap of problems. What would put it all to bed is production of the whole body of evidence, as we have asked for all along.

Unless you have objections to that evidence being open and available???
 
Zep said:
In the case of Ohio, there's NO evidence to work with.

Precisely.

And even with NO evidence, "Woo_Lowe and Friends" (tm) were able to spin an elaborate conspiracy involving high ranking officials, shadowy election workers, evil multi-national corporations, black helicopters and the President of The United States!!!

Sort of like the moon landing hoax, the JFK assassination and a lot of other woo conspiracies that came before it.
 
My theory is that Rumsfeld and everybody who knows him personally are actually pink invisible unicorns from Venus, who took on human form.

I have no evidence for it, therefore I suppose that, like the stolen 2004 elections, I would have to wait until one of the invisible pink unicorn confesses to the truth.

Of course, that's all the fault of Rumsfeld and co. There is NO evidence to work with--not ONE official piece of paper either affirming or denying they are invisible pink unicorns have EVER been made public.

This, of course, merely adds to my suspicion that they're hiding something--why else won't they talk about it?--but, alas, all I got in this stage is suspicions.

But just you wait! THE TRUTH will eventually come out! Rummy & co. couldn't possibly ALL keep their mouth shut FOREVER!
 
Skeptic said:

...
1). I'm sure they're devastated, Ion.

2). True to your usual parasitical view of life, you didn't stop reading the paper in protest for their endorsement of Bush... you just stopped paying for it.

You're not the kind of guy to make any sort of protest that might, God forbid, actually mean that you must deny yourself anything.

Ladies and gentlemen: the "progressive" attitude in action.
Regarding 1)., it doesn't matter to me whether "...they're devastated...", what matters to me is my integrity, no matter the popularity.

Regarding 2)., I boycott paying The San Diego Union Tribune;
I use it anyway to read pro-Bush points of view, antagonist to mine, so that I can be open minded;
more open minded than Bush's yes servants, a la Condi Rice;
as for my "...parasitical view of life...", with my "...parasitical view of life..." I got a graduate degree in Electrical Engineering, without using affirmative action, and in a foreign language where my thinking is slower than in my native tongue;
but Bush got a law degree -which is cheaper intelectually than a scientific degree-, in his native language, and with legacy help from his father (after poor C grades at Yale), and this is affirmative action for the rich and the undeserving;
so, if my lifestyle has a "...parasitical view of life...", then Bush's lifestyle has a way more "...parasitical view of life..." than mine.

In fact speaking of Bush's "...parasitical view of life...", in three years time, you will say that in given losing situations, there will be nothing better to do than what Bush will be doing.

Watch for these losing situations he creates since 2000, because the neoconservative fool paints himself into a corner.

November 2004 there was a crossroad, facing a fork with two prongs:

.) Bush's prong with record deficits, war of aggression for looting, tax cuts for the rich and outsourcing the U.S. industry;

.) Kerry's prong with deficits in check, international diplomacy, taxing the rich, penalizing the outsourcing of the U.S. industry.

But let me support this with what the world thinks, according to the Los Angeles Times now, a paper that I respect.

Saturday January 22, 2005 Los Angeles Times has on page A11, under 'Israel Denies Plans to Attack':

1.) "...A BBC World Service Poll of 22,000 people in 21 countries showed this week that 58% of respondents, and a majority in 16 countries, considered the world more dangerous because of Bush's reelection..."

2.) "It would be sensible if the Americans would think not only about potential military strikes. It would be good if they would participate more constructively in the diplomatic efforts of the European Union.";

3.) "...Commentators in varios regions chided Bush for what they said was his aggressive projection of American power and questioned whether the president was sincere about backing freedom fighters and not dictators...";

4.) "With this president the world feels like it's dancing on a volcano.";

5.) "We also think about his economic policy based on abysmal deficits which put USA (and therefore the rest of the world) on the edge of a financial crash.".

Not too much winning with Bush's neoconservative policies, eh?

At the crossroad on November 2004, you and your ilk, you voted and chose to lose.
 

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