• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Falling calculation?

dogjones

Graduate Poster
Joined
Oct 3, 2005
Messages
1,303
So, I was reading about this guy Alexander Diem who set a skydiving speed record of 313mph. But nowhere did it tell me how long he spent in freefall. I calculated as follows.

313mph

*5280 = 1,652,640 feet per hour

/60, /60 = 459.0667 feet per second

So, I hear that falling bodies accelerate at 32fps/ps. I take this to mean that after 1 second in freefall you are travelling at 32 fps, after 2 seconds 64fps, after 3 seconds 96fps, etc etc. Which means all I have to do now is divide 459.0667 by 32 = 14.3458 seconds in freefall, assuming no wind resistance.

Am I correct? If so this would be the bare minimum amount of time, but wind resistance would have made it take a lot longer, yes? How do you work this out?

I also just realised I ignored the plane's initial speed as well. Ohhhhhh God.
 
The planes initial speed is likely horizontal and not vertical. Gravity effects vertical accelaration regardless of what you're doing horizontally, so it won't matter. Otherwise, you're right.

Not enough info to figure out wind resistance. To even make a start at that you'd need to know his starting altitude and even then it will be an approximation at best.
 
So, I was reading about this guy Alexander Diem who set a skydiving speed record of 313mph. But nowhere did it tell me how long he spent in freefall. I calculated as follows.

313mph

*5280 = 1,652,640 feet per hour

/60, /60 = 459.0667 feet per second

So, I hear that falling bodies accelerate at 32fps/ps. I take this to mean that after 1 second in freefall you are travelling at 32 fps, after 2 seconds 64fps, after 3 seconds 96fps, etc etc. Which means all I have to do now is divide 459.0667 by 32 = 14.3458 seconds in freefall, assuming no wind resistance.

Am I correct? If so this would be the bare minimum amount of time, but wind resistance would have made it take a lot longer, yes? How do you work this out?

I also just realised I ignored the plane's initial speed as well. Ohhhhhh God.

There are formulas you can use, but they're the ideal ones, in that they ignore wind resistance. They are:

v = u + at

and

s = ut + 1/2at^2

Where

u = initial velocity in metres/second
v = final velocity in metres/second
a = acceleration in metres/second/second (9.8 metres/second/second when falling on Earth)
s = displacement (distance travelled) in metres, and
t = time in seconds.

313 mph = 140 metres/second (near enough)

So if wind resistance wasn't an issue, the time it would take to accelerate to 140 m/s would be:

140 = 0 + (9.8 x t), which is

140/9.8 = t, which is

t = 14.3 seconds (which I see agrees with your calculations)

Now, yes, this is a minimum time. Wind resistance would increase the time, though I don't know by how much, nor do I know how to work it out. It's affected both by altitude (which obviously changes as he falls) and his profile (spreadeagled people fall more slowly than people who form the shape of a vertical dart). What we do know is that eventually he'll reach terminal velocity - the speed at which air drag matches gravity - and he'll go no faster. In fact, as he falls, the atmosphere thickens, and his terminal velocity for his profile will actually decrease.

Also, because of the atmosphere, the higher the altitude he jumps from, the less drag the air will exert on him. However, using the second formula above, you can work out the minimum distance he must have travelled to reach his record speed. It's around 1000 metres. Obviously he would have needed plenty more distance beyond that to deploy his parachute and decelerate to a safe landing speed. But I'm pretty sure skydivers can jump from much higher than that sort of altitude.

The plane's initial speed is irrelevant, as it was flying horizontally, and the skydiver's speed is presumably his vertical velocity. The horizontal and the vertical are decoupled - your horizontal speed has no effect on how fast you fall (there's a simple experiment which demonstrates this: a device which simultaneously drops a marble while flinging another out horizontally - the two marbles hit the ground at the same time).

Incidentally, as for the record, I thought that was held by Joe Kittinger, who jumped from a helium balloon from an altitude of a few tens of kilometres, and broke the speed of sound while he was free-falling.
 
So, I was reading about this guy Alexander Diem who set a skydiving speed record of 313mph. But nowhere did it tell me how long he spent in freefall. I calculated as follows.

313mph

*5280 = 1,652,640 feet per hour

/60, /60 = 459.0667 feet per second

So, I hear that falling bodies accelerate at 32fps/ps. I take this to mean that after 1 second in freefall you are travelling at 32 fps, after 2 seconds 64fps, after 3 seconds 96fps, etc etc. Which means all I have to do now is divide 459.0667 by 32 = 14.3458 seconds in freefall, assuming no wind resistance.

Am I correct? If so this would be the bare minimum amount of time, but wind resistance would have made it take a lot longer, yes? How do you work this out?

I also just realised I ignored the plane's initial speed as well. Ohhhhhh God.

There are formulas you can use, but they're the ideal ones, in that they ignore wind resistance. They are:

v = u + at

and

s = ut + 1/2at^2

Where

u = initial velocity in metres/second
v = final velocity in metres/second
a = acceleration in metres/second/second (9.8 metres/second/second when falling on Earth)
s = displacement (distance travelled) in metres, and
t = time in seconds.

313 mph = 140 metres/second (near enough)

So if wind resistance wasn't an issue, the time it would take to accelerate to 140 m/s would be:

140 = 0 + (9.8 x t), which is

140/9.8 = t, which is

t = 14.3 seconds (which I see agrees with your calculations)

Now, yes, this is a minimum time. Wind resistance would increase the time, though I don't know by how much, nor do I know how to work it out. It's affected both by altitude (which obviously changes as he falls) and his profile (spreadeagled people fall more slowly than people who form the shape of a vertical dart). What we do know is that eventually he'll reach terminal velocity - the speed at which air drag matches gravity - and he'll go no faster. In fact, as he falls, the atmosphere thickens, and his terminal velocity for his profile will actually decrease.

Also, because of the atmosphere, the higher the altitude he jumps from, the less drag the air will exert on him. However, using the second formula above, you can work out the minimum distance he must have travelled to reach his record speed. It's around 1000 metres. Obviously he would have needed plenty more distance beyond that to deploy his parachute and decelerate to a safe landing speed. But I'm pretty sure skydivers can jump from much higher than that sort of altitude.

The plane's initial speed is irrelevant, as it was flying horizontally, and the skydiver's speed is presumably his vertical velocity. The horizontal and the vertical are decoupled - your horizontal speed has no effect on how fast you fall (there's a simple experiment which demonstrates this: a device which simultaneously drops a marble while flinging another out horizontally - the two marbles hit the ground at the same time).

Incidentally, as for the record, I thought that was held by Joe Kittinger, who jumped from a helium balloon from an altitude of a few tens of kilometres, and broke the speed of sound while he was free-falling.
 
Having hung around a jump school and having jumped a couple times [*], I recall the instructors speaking of 120MPH as the terminal velocity for a human body.

There have been a couple amazing documented survival stories. We were told that with altitude and skill or luck, the vertical velocity could be turned into horizontal velocity and at 120MPH, a failed chute can wind up being more liek a bad car crash than "free fall from mumble thousands of ft.

* The old fashioned way, on a static line and not attached to an instructor's harness as seems to be the style these days.
 
In most discussions of this, I've read that the air resistance limits a falling human body to about 150-200 mph (225-300 fps) vertically. In a discussion on Myth Busters about the terminal velocity of a bullet fired directly upwards they computed roughly the same velocity for a .45 bullet coming down, and seemed to derive some empirical evidence that that was true. Skydivers know full well that they can control their velocity by how they encounter the air resistance; the well known "face to the wind" slows them to the greatest extent and allows for maximum time aloft.

By the way, the Myth Busters proved that bullets dropping from any heighth at all would not normally be able to penetrate the skull. Most such accidents (being shot from a very great distance) occur because of the horizontal velocity of the bullet, not the vertical, which is not to say that shooting a gun upwards is exactly a safe pre-occupation.
 
The plane's initial speed is irrelevant, as it was flying horizontally, and the skydiver's speed is presumably his vertical velocity. The horizontal and the vertical are decoupled - your horizontal speed has no effect on how fast you fall (there's a simple experiment which demonstrates this: a device which simultaneously drops a marble while flinging another out horizontally - the two marbles hit the ground at the same time).

I wondered about that. So does that mean if we take two bullets, drop one and fire the other one perfectly horizontally (on a perfectly level surface) they would hit the ground at the same time?
 
I wondered about that. So does that mean if we take two bullets, drop one and fire the other one perfectly horizontally (on a perfectly level surface) they would hit the ground at the same time?

Yes, in a perfect setup.
 
I wondered about that. So does that mean if we take two bullets, drop one and fire the other one perfectly horizontally (on a perfectly level surface) they would hit the ground at the same time?

Theoretically? Yes.

Practically? Yes, to a decent degree of precision (assumption of flat less than ideal if distance is long, wind effects)

They've done stop motion photography of a horizontally thrown and dropped balls, and they fell at the same rate.
 
"In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is." - Yogi Berra.
 

Back
Top Bottom