Explain What's Happening In My Brain

[Loss Leader]

A question about the workings of the human brain:

I play a game on my phone where you're given seven letters and have to place all the words that can be made from them in a crossword grid.

As an example, I might get the letters P D N U S O T. I'll find "stop" and "nut" and "oust" and such. Invariably, I will end up with one word left that I have not thought of.

The missing word at this point may look like this: _ O _ _ D.

And after a few moments, I will correctly fill in "Pound."

Here's the interesting part. Consciously, I will have the thought, "In for a penny, in for a _____" just a moment before I consciously think "Pound."

Now, I know that I had to have first decoded the word and only then found a usage. However, to my conscious mind, the usage appears to precede the word.

This happens consistently when I am stuck, however briefly, on a word.

Any scientific explanation of the apparent paradox is greatly appreciated. How does a derivative thought get to my consciousness more quickly than the original thought?

 

[marplots]

My guess is that you aren't aware of all the processing going on - much is concealed. Only when the thought becomes something more than background do we notice it and call it part of our conscious experience. But that doesn't mean we aren't thinking about and modifying the other thoughts dancing in our heads.

I absolutely don't know this to be true, tested or studied. I just like the idea.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

A question about the workings of the human brain:

I play a game on my phone where you're given seven letters and have to place all the words that can be made from them in a crossword grid.

As an example, I might get the letters P D N U S O T. I'll find "stop" and "nut" and "oust" and such. Invariably, I will end up with one word left that I have not thought of.

The missing word at this point may look like this: _ O _ _ D.

And after a few moments, I will correctly fill in "Pound."

Here's the interesting part. Consciously, I will have the thought, "In for a penny, in for a _____" just a moment before I consciously think "Pound."

Now, I know that I had to have first decoded the word and only then found a usage. However, to my conscious mind, the usage appears to precede the word.

This happens consistently when I am stuck, however briefly, on a word.

Any scientific explanation of the apparent paradox is greatly appreciated. How does a derivative thought get to my consciousness more quickly than the original thought?

Yes. There is a scientific explanation. Conscious thought is overrated.

The brain is now known to have all sorts of activities/actions that do not require processing through the consciousness center.

For a simple example, notice when your fingers type a different word than you were thinking. It's more than typos going on.

I just typed 'that' instead of 'than' (and since corrected it). The n and the t are not next to each other on my keyboard. I didn't think that and subsequently correct my thought to than. My fingers got ahead of my conscious thought.

Pay attention to your typos and you'll see the same thing.

 

[This is The End]

This is a known effect. That subconscious decisions, links, and actions, can happen before the conscious mind gets a say in the matter.

I remember a study that I can't seem to google at the moment where people were shown multiple pictures. They were supposed to hit a button I believe if the picture was frightening. The brain scan knew they would pick frightening way before they actually hit the button.

Here are some related ones:

http://www.nature.com/news/2008/080411/full/news.2008.751.html

The volunteers were asked to press one of two buttons when they felt the urge to. Each button was operated by a different hand. At the same time, a stream of letters were presented on a screen at half-second intervals, and the volunteers had to remember which letter was showing when they decided to press their button.

When the researchers analysed the data, the earliest signal the team could pick up started seven seconds before the volunteers reported having made their decision. Because of there is a delay of a few seconds in the imaging, this means that the brain activity could have begun as much as ten seconds before the conscious decision. The signal came from a region called the frontopolar cortex, at the front of the brain, immediately behind the forehead.

The results build on some well-known work on free will done in the 1980s by the late neurophysiologist Benjamin Libet, then at the University of California, San Francisco. Libet used a similar experimental set-up to Haynes, but with just one button and measuring electrical activity in his subjects' brains. He found that the regions responsible for movement reacted a few hundred milliseconds before a conscious decision was made.

This doesn't mean we don't have control, of course. It's just more information for our conscious mind to work with at the last "minute".

“We already know our decisions can be unconsciously primed,” he says. The brain activity could be part of this priming, as opposed to the decision process, he adds.

 

[Minoosh]

A question about the workings of the human brain:

I play a game on my phone where you're given seven letters and have to place all the words that can be made from them in a crossword grid.

As an example, I might get the letters P D N U S O T. I'll find "stop" and "nut" and "oust" and such. Invariably, I will end up with one word left that I have not thought of.

The missing word at this point may look like this: _ O _ _ D.

And after a few moments, I will correctly fill in "Pound."

Here's the interesting part. Consciously, I will have the thought, "In for a penny, in for a _____" just a moment before I consciously think "Pound."

Now, I know that I had to have first decoded the word and only then found a usage. However, to my conscious mind, the usage appears to precede the word.

This happens consistently when I am stuck, however briefly, on a word.

Any scientific explanation of the apparent paradox is greatly appreciated. How does a derivative thought get to my consciousness more quickly than the original thought?

I don't have a scientific answer and I'm not sure anyone else does either. How exactly memories are encoded and retrieved is a fascinating topic, though. The rhythm of an adage may work something like a melody, pairing the word to a certain cadence you associate it with. The two "events" may be virtually simultaneous - in fact, they are bound to be.

It's related, IMO, to "intuition," whatever that is. A subconscious chain of thought that pokes its way into your conscious mind. Like knowing something is not right about a situation before you can articulate the reasons.

Anagram games put me into a kind of a trance - that might be a clue to the process - the boundaries to knowledge are down, and maybe freestyle word association is reaching some well of memory not immediately available to your conscious mind.

ETA: It's problematic even to speak of your "derivative" thought vs. your "original" thought. You have worded your post very carefully to account for this. I'll always know the Spanish verb bailar because I can retrieve it by "playing a tape" in my head of the song "La Bamba." I know this isn't exactly answering your question, but the neural events may be taking place in some kind of parallel way. Then one "jumps the tracks" and intrudes into your conscious mind. I can only describe this in metaphors, though.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

... and I'm not sure anyone else does either....

Well you could look at our answers before assuming this.

My answer was serious and evidence based even if I didn't post a lecture's worth of material explaining the details. And This is The End supported what was posted.

 

[Minoosh]

Here's a link to the Panamath test, which I've probably posted before. It's not word-related but supposedly a measure of "number sense." However, memory is involved. The most interesting thing about this test, for me, is that I can realize I'm wrong literally in a split second, but not soon enough to retract my answer. Also, if I'm "on a roll" with right answers my confidence goes up and when I'm in a slump it goes down.

Taking the test is kind of excruciating, really, but fun. Kind of like tournament Scrabble. I have had amazing "beginner's luck" against players much better than I am, because, IMO, my inhibitions were down and I was able to retrieve anagrams quickly from my limited word knowledge. (Over any significant number of games with such players, I get creamed). There are people who don't even speak English, who work entirely visually - they memorize what's a word and what isn't, divorced from any meaning or any grasp of the "rules" for English. Some people play with probabilities, tracking letters, knowing what's still in the bag, which makes them uncannily good at knowing when to "throw in" and miss a turn because they know there are good letters left.

Cognitive mysteries. These puzzles are supposedly good for the brain. It's nice to believe they are not a waste of time.

 

[Minoosh]

Well you could look at our answers before assuming this.

My answer was serious and evidence based even if I didn't post a lecture's worth of material explaining the details. And This is The End supported what was posted.

That's all good and I enjoyed those answers. Empirically demonstrating that the unconscious mind is working faster than the conscious mind is great. But it doesn't get to the level of what must be happening chemically in our brains when we unconsciously rummage through our stored knowledge.

When I got to the thread there were no answers, but I was intrigued, so I posted, but I took my time. I knew that in the meantime I was probably getting ninja'ed by people who knew more than I did. Maybe in the time I'm composing this answer someone else will post studies about neurochemical or electrical events that explain the role of melody, rhythm or cadence in the process of memory retrieval. I'm a laywoman, I love to learn, but there will be a level at which I will not be able to understand everything a study is saying.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

That's all good and I enjoyed those answers. Empirically demonstrating that the unconscious mind is working faster than the conscious mind is great. But it doesn't get to the level of what must be happening chemically in our brains when we unconsciously rummage through our stored knowledge.

How do you know that without knowing what the current evidence is?

Maybe in the time I'm composing this answer someone else will post studies about neurochemical or electrical events that explain the role of melody, rhythm or cadence in the process of memory retrieval. I'm a laywoman, I love to learn, but there will be a level at which I will not be able to understand everything a study is saying.

It's late here, but tomorrow I'll try to find you some interesting research about the very active functions beyond the conscious brain.

 

[Aepervius]

That's all good and I enjoyed those answers. Empirically demonstrating that the unconscious mind is working faster than the conscious mind is great. But it doesn't get to the level of what must be happening chemically in our brains when we unconsciously rummage through our stored knowledge.

When I got to the thread there were no answers, but I was intrigued, so I posted, but I took my time. I knew that in the meantime I was probably getting ninja'ed by people who knew more than I did. Maybe in the time I'm composing this answer someone else will post studies about neurochemical or electrical events that explain the role of melody, rhythm or cadence in the process of memory retrieval. I'm a laywoman, I love to learn, but there will be a level at which I will not be able to understand everything a study is saying.

The biggest problem is that it is difficult to slice and dice a person or make a study at the neuronal level while keeping them alive.

There is no doubt that it is all chemical, neuron potential, and transmitter, as we have sliced, diced, and tested animals and neuron reaction of various small and bigger animals, from rodent , insects to mammals.

But when it comes to human you are severely limited to looking at a dead brain , so it is difficult to check how much its and how neuron react to music or it remembers or compose.
Then when it comes to live brain we only have "averaging" instrument which tells you how much zone are consuming sugar, but this is a rough "binocular" view from far away and can't tell you much of the nitty gritty on the neuronal network (e.g. NMRI, CT or fMRI).

I could be wrong, but I am relatively sure that while you may find explanation on why *some* type of melody are good among certain culture, and why we human as general like scales like the musical scale, you probably won't find much which explain it as such a low level as neuronal network, neither hearing nor composing.

 

[Bikewer]

I recall hearing an article on NPR (Perhaps Science Friday) which talked about decisions being made in the subconscious before the conscious mind is aware. Essentially, that the conscious mind tricks itself into thinking it made the decision.

I think we're all familiar with the "Eureka Effect", where subconscious processing solves knotty problems and feeds us the answer when we're otherwise engaged.

 

[casebro]

Here's a link to the Panamath test,....

Cognitive mysteries. These puzzles are supposedly good for the brain. It's nice to believe they are not a waste of time.

DBPC study please.

I suspect that active minds do puzzles, and stay active and alert into old age too. It's selection bias. And biased towards doing brain teasers rather than actual thinking. How is my sister's Sudoku better than me reading and posting here?

 

[casebro]

I recall hearing an article on NPR (Perhaps Science Friday) which talked about decisions being made in the subconscious before the conscious mind is aware. Essentially, that the conscious mind tricks itself into thinking it made the decision.

I think we're all familiar with the "Eureka Effect", where subconscious processing solves knotty problems and feeds us the answer when we're otherwise engaged.

In my mid sixties now, I do find the answers come better if I take a break. Sleeping on it helps.

 

[Ziggurat]

My guess is that you aren't aware of all the processing going on - much is concealed.

The normal representation of the unconsciousness makes it seem like it's this second person hidden inside you. But I prefer to think of it in simpler terms: it's just the part of your brain that doesn't record its state. That lack of a recorded state is what makes you "unaware" of it.

 

[casebro]

Yes. There is a scientific explanation. Conscious thought is overrated.

The brain is now known to have all sorts of activities/actions that do not require processing through the consciousness center.

For a simple example, notice when your fingers type a different word than you were thinking. It's more than typos going on.

I just typed 'that' instead of 'than' (and since corrected it). The n and the t are not next to each other on my keyboard. I didn't think that and subsequently correct my thought to than. My fingers got ahead of my conscious thought.

Pay attention to your typos and you'll see the same thing.

I think some are "Freudian Slips", where what you accidentally communicate is true, from your subconscious. Half of psychological evaluations are to try to figure out how a person's subconscious works- ink blot tests off the top of my head.

And isn't stuttering a deal of subconscious/conscious difficulty? "That" when you mean "than" isn't a typo, it's digital stuttering.

 

[Belz...]

The missing word at this point may look like this: _ O _ _ D.

And after a few moments, I will correctly fill in "Pound."

Here's the interesting part. Consciously, I will have the thought, "In for a penny, in for a _____" just a moment before I consciously think "Pound."

Now, I know that I had to have first decoded the word and only then found a usage. However, to my conscious mind, the usage appears to precede the word.

This happens consistently when I am stuck, however briefly, on a word.

Any scientific explanation of the apparent paradox is greatly appreciated. How does a derivative thought get to my consciousness more quickly than the original thought?

The thing you have to remember is that your consciousness isn't the actor but the audience. You're made aware of some of the processes in your brain, but not necessarily in the right order or at the right time. That's the way I understand it, anyway.

 

[Beelzebuddy]

Any scientific explanation of the apparent paradox is greatly appreciated. How does a derivative thought get to my consciousness more quickly than the original thought?

Because consciousness is illusory, and the derivative thought came first.

Your parietal cortex, right underneath the typical bald spot, is the seat of associations in the brain. The bits that form associations with vocabulary are more lateral on both sides, about where pigtails would sit. The blank feeling you get when confronted with a riddle or a puzzle that requires associative memory is really anything but - this area's fizzing in a furious competition between ensembles of correlated activity, commonly called "engrams." These aren't necessarily different patches of brain or different cells, but mutually-incompatible clusters in an abstracted neural activity space comprised of linked concepts and associations.

The specific spelling of the word "pound," the abstract concept of the term "pound" and the phrase "in for a penny, in for a pound" all have associative links, reinforcing each other's activity. They were all part of the same engram. The spelling part of it had to fight restrictions - only these letters, in this partial arrangement - and competition between all of the other words you were trying to think of, but the phrase did not and was free to rise unbidden, bolstered by "pound"s growing success in the search. So it established dominance in whatever area it resided in moments before pound's triumph.

You might have noticed I'm leaving out a lot of specifics above. That's because this is largely conjecture (cough cough BS cough). If we knew, say, exactly how the spelling-based restrictions worked, we'd know a damn sight more about the brain than we do currently. But for now this is as good as guess as I can come up with.

 

[casebro]

A guess is that tons of "athletic ability" is actually letting your subconscious go ahead and to it. We call it reflexes.

My related problem is my inconsistency at shooting shotguns at moving targets. (Shooting is not for just us "American Gangster" types, it's an Olympic sport) Too slow of a target allows too much conscious thought, not enough reflexive action? But some guys are very good, and very consistent. Zen? Meditation? It's some kind of ummm internal thought control process...

 

[Loss Leader]

Thank you for all the thoughtful answers and for the links to further scientific studies.

 

[Belz...]

Thank you for all the thoughtful answers and for the links to further scientific studies.

Now think about it: your brain decided to thank us well before you were made aware of it. You're like John Malkovich in Being John Malkovich; trapped in a body you can't control.