EVERYTHING didn't come from one thing (and you know it)

Iamme

Philosopher
I
Joined
Aug 5, 2003
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Ha. A parody of that other thread.

But, I'm being serious here. As I drove into my friends apt. this morning on my 20 mile drive, I took in all the scenery and pondered this business that everything sprang from hydrogen gas. The grass, blooming milkweed pods, the road, the painted lines, the straight wood telephone poles, the houses, the clouds, the blue sky...my car with me in it.

Ya, right.

With no designer behind it what so ever?

What makes you think the *laws*, not just the substances...but the laws, just occured out of the blue? Hmmmm? WHY did there have to be a law of magnetism or gravity, that sprang into existance? It COULD have occurred that hydrogen atoms changed a little and created different sized atoms...and all these different size atoms just went floating around in space as diffeent sized atoms.

What determined that these atoms had to be drawn togerther. I knowwwwww....... it did it just because it did it, right? Ya.

Come on people. Think deeper. Don't just buy into this without making people tell you exactly HOW this happened. To jump gaps, in big leaps of faith, is not science. And you know it.

Until someone can tell me HOW everything happened to cause the most simple to become even the SLIGHTEST more complicated, with the laws that bind them...then I'll have no choice but to believe that a force with a 'brain' caused this to happen.
 
Listen, I have a GREAT pattern for a lace doiley if you'd like to learn how to make one. You cast on only 4 stitches and build it up from there. Will it take some time? Yes, it will. Quite a lot of time. And even though it is only made of 2 different stitches (knit and purl) you will have an extremely complicated, and complex, design when you are finished.

Oh - and that "leap of faith" thing. So you are saying, "Wow - look how complex the world is! I personally can't grasp this, or how it came to be, so therefore, there MUST be a designer!!!" and you don't think that is a leap of faith?
 
OOOh.. So then how did god do it?

He just "did it".

Yes, I see how that explains everything.
 
Oh chicken, found another one...

[rubs temples] I will not engage Iamme in reasoned debate....
I will not engage Iamme in reasoned debate....
I will not engage Iamme in reasoned debate....
[/rubs temples]
 
Iamme said:
Until someone can tell me HOW everything happened to cause the most simple to become even the SLIGHTEST more complicated, with the laws that bind them...then I'll have no choice but to believe that a force with a 'brain' caused this to happen.
Click to expand...

Until you tell me how that 'force' with a 'brain' was able to come into existence, I'll have no choice but to believe this argument is old, tired and foolish.
 
kmortis said:
Oh chicken, found another one...

[rubs temples] I will not engage Iamme in reasoned debate....
I will not engage Iamme in reasoned debate....
I will not engage Iamme in reasoned debate....
[/rubs temples]
Click to expand...

I've spotted a pattern.

It's people who's names start with Ia-
 
Turns out complex appearances can arise from simple regular phenomena. Order does not depend upon design. Take Easy Mac(tm) for instance- boil this in a bowl with just enough water, and all of the mac noodles stand up in the bottom aligned to one another rather than in a jumbled mess. Why? Entropy. There is more disorder when the noodles are packed together in this formation than when they are scattershot around the bowl. A complex phenomenon from a single element and entropy; no design, no unseen angels arranging noodles. Just extrapolate that to the rest of the universe and you've started to get a clue about how things work.

And yes, one could also interpret this as the handiwork of His Noodly Appendage.
 
kmortis said:
Oh chicken, found another one...

[rubs temples] I will not engage Iamme in reasoned debate....
I will not engage Iamme in reasoned debate....
I will not engage Iamme in reasoned debate....
[/rubs temples]
Click to expand...
Will not? Are you telling me you could, if you would?? That's impressive! Could you do it just for a few posts, only to show us how it's done?

Hans
 
DreadNiK said:
I've spotted a pattern.

It's people who's names start with Ia-
Click to expand...

That's it. We should get ourselves a government grant to study this phenomenon. Granted, it might take us a few years to get results, decades even...in the tropics. Somewhere with no extradition treaties with our home country(-ies).
 
MRC_Hans said:
Will not? Are you telling me you could, if you would?? That's impressive! Could you do it just for a few posts, only to show us how it's done?

Hans
Click to expand...

Ok, ya got me. I forgot the phrase "try to" in there.

Although, technically, if I put forth reasoned, well-thought out arguments...oh, I see your point now.
 
Iamme said:
QUOTE]Come on people. Think deeper. Don't just buy into this without making people tell you exactly HOW this happened. To jump gaps, in big leaps of faith, is not science. And you know it.
Click to expand...
What, faith? Did somebody mention faith? My Gawd!

:dl:
 
Iamme said:
What makes you think the *laws*, not just the substances...but the laws, just occured out of the blue? Hmmmm? WHY did there have to be a law of magnetism or gravity, that sprang into existance? It COULD have occurred that hydrogen atoms changed a little and created different sized atoms...and all these different size atoms just went floating around in space as diffeent sized atoms.
Click to expand...
Yes, but how did that damn hydrogen thingee get there in the first place? :con2:
 
OOOh.. So then how did god do it?

He just "did it".

Yes, I see how that explains everything.
Click to expand...

It makes sense for a supreme being of unimaginable qualities of essence that is subject to nothing to be able to create life.

Until you tell me how that 'force' with a 'brain' was able to come into existence, I'll have no choice but to believe this argument is old, tired and foolish.
Click to expand...

God didn't "come into" existence, he always has been and always will be without change. If God is the creator of the universe then it follows that existence is God + anything he creates. If God created time then it follows that time is not of natural necessary existence- outside of the universe and all that God has created, that is. If time is of natural necessary existence then it is hard to conclude that God did not have a beginning, but time is NOT of natural necessary existence but is contained in God's creation, therefore God does not have a beginning or an end.
 
BJQ87 said:
It makes sense for a supreme being of unimaginable qualities of essence that is subject to nothing to be able to create life.



God didn't "come into" existence, he always has been and always will be without change. If God is the creator of the universe then it follows that existence is God + anything he creates. If God created time then it follows that time is not of natural necessary existence- outside of the universe and all that God has created, that is. If time is of natural necessary existence then it is hard to conclude that God did not have a beginning, but time is NOT of natural necessary existence but is contained in God's creation, therefore God does not have a beginning or an end.
Click to expand...
Ah, but then there's the problem of God being the creation of human brains to start with. Very circular. Reducto absurdum.
 
BJQ87 said:
God didn't "come into" existence, he always has been and always will be without change. If God is the creator of the universe then it follows that existence is God + anything he creates. If God created time then it follows that time is not of natural necessary existence- outside of the universe and all that God has created, that is. If time is of natural necessary existence then it is hard to conclude that God did not have a beginning, but time is NOT of natural necessary existence but is contained in God's creation, therefore God does not have a beginning or an end.
Click to expand...

Same for the spacetime foam. Only IT doesn't have to be infinitely complex.
 
Iamme said:
...
Until someone can tell me HOW everything happened to cause the most simple to become even the SLIGHTEST more complicated, with the laws that bind them...then I'll have no choice but to believe that a force with a 'brain' caused this to happen.
Click to expand...

I would, but it requires a person with a brain to understand it.
 
Belz... said:
Same for the spacetime foam. Only IT doesn't have to be infinitely complex.
Click to expand...
And if somebody planted "a seed" within this foam, where did the blue print come from that allowed it to evolve into the Universe?
 
alfaniner said:
I would, but it requires a person with a brain to understand it.
Click to expand...
Or, at the very least a person with a brain who is capable of exercising it! So, I guess that disqualifies most everyone who is in a coma, huh? ;)
 
How to make humans:

1)Energy

2)cools as universe expands

3)quarks

4)quarks combine to become stable

5)matter (mostly hydrogen)

6)gravity

7)stars

8)fusion

9)heavier elements (though still mostly hydrogen)

10)self replicating molecules

11)natural selection

12)humans


There happy now?
 
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