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Everyone has a degree. Good or bad?

daenku32

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Surely this would be a good thing. It would means the people would be a lot smarter on the whole.

And there would be greater choice when it comes time to hiring. The pools of potential employees would be much greater.

But I sense that others don't feel this way. Am I right on that?
 
daenku32 said:
Surely this would be a good thing. It would means the people would be a lot smarter on the whole.

And there would be greater choice when it comes time to hiring. The pools of potential employees would be much greater.

But I sense that others don't feel this way. Am I right on that?
Click to expand...

Well, first of all, getting a degree doesn't make you any smarter. It may make you better educated (in fact, I hope it does), but it won't do much for your intelligence.

It will also adjust the pool of potential employees -- a lot of lower-end jobs not only don't call for college degrees, but employers may actively discriminate against then (feeling that degreed applicants are overqualified and there's something wrong with them). More importantly, a lot of people with degrees feel that they should be working something other than blue-collar jobs, so many of them feel that working plumbing or carpentry is beneath them.

So it might actually make life worse for plumbers and carpenters in several ways.

But, at least in theory, education shouldn't be about jobs and economics, but about learning and knowledge. The whole root of the "liberal arts" is that they "liberate" you (as opposed to the "servile" arts that teach you better how to serve your masters).

And, yes, I think the world would be a better place if, for example, every American knew how to speak at least three languages passably well. I think there would be a lot less misunderstanding and misinformation about "evil countries" and "evil religions" and stuff like that if most people actually knew a little bit about the differences between being Arab and being Moslem. I think the world would be better off if everyone knew basic macroeconomics and understood what inflation actually is and why it's not necessarily a bad thing.

And this is the sort of thing that even supermarket checkers and motel maids should be able to know, especially if they're going to be doing things like voting.
 
daenku32 said:
Surely this would be a good thing. It would means the people would be a lot smarter on the whole.

And there would be greater choice when it comes time to hiring. The pools of potential employees would be much greater.

But I sense that others don't feel this way. Am I right on that?
Click to expand...
Who would sweep, vacuum and mop the floors and clean the toilets? A person with a Batchelors degree in liberal arts would balk at being a mailclerk. Who would wash and dry our cars and mow our lawns (don't answer that) Who would service our sewers? Lots of essential jobs that don't require a degree.
 
Cainkane1 said:
Who would sweep, vacuum and mop the floors and clean the toilets? A person with a Batchelors degree in liberal arts would balk at being a mailclerk. Who would wash and dry our cars and mow our lawns (don't answer that) Who would service our sewers? Lots of essential jobs that don't require a degree.
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But would a person with a BA still balk as such work if everyone had a BA?

People with a high school diploma don't view themselves as too highly educated for such menial work, today. But washing cars doesn't really require even that level of education.

The issue I have is that if it were compulsory in the same way that a high school education is compulsory, there would be a great deal more apathy toward learning in universities than there is today. And that might mean that the education that everyone gets would suffer.
 
Australia has a medium term target of 40% of the population holding a bachelor's degree. This seems about right to me for a technologically advanced nation.
 
daenku32 said:
Surely this would be a good thing. It would means the people would be a lot smarter on the whole.

And there would be greater choice when it comes time to hiring. The pools of potential employees would be much greater.

But I sense that others don't feel this way. Am I right on that?
Click to expand...

First, having a degree doesn't make people smarter, contrary to what some of those with nothing but a degree think. It may make them better educated, assuming they aren't otherwise motivated to educate themselves, but it won't make them more intelligent, as I'd use that term, and that's what I mean by "smarter."

Then when you mention hiring...did you think about this before you posted? The economic value of a degree is in its rarity. I've been to places where high school was an economically valuable achievement. Having everybody graduate from college, even if it's the best college on earth, makes a college education as valuable as, let's say, a million dollars...in a world where every single person has a million dollars. In short, your proposal doesn't make employees more valuable, ir makes education worthless.

In your world, a college degree is required to dig ditches, hang off the back of the garbage truck or hold a flag on the highway. How is that a benefit to anybody?
 
Wouldn't having a degree also have a collateral effect of changing behaviours?

Beyond the "more educated" aspect of the degree outcome, increased ability to organise, work with others, or plan work better could also be a useful result.

KE
 
brenn said:
First, having a degree doesn't make people smarter, contrary to what some of those with nothing but a degree think. It may make them better educated, assuming they aren't otherwise motivated to educate themselves, but it won't make them more intelligent, as I'd use that term, and that's what I mean by "smarter."

Then when you mention hiring...did you think about this before you posted? The economic value of a degree is in its rarity. I've been to places where high school was an economically valuable achievement. Having everybody graduate from college, even if it's the best college on earth, makes a college education as valuable as, let's say, a million dollars...in a world where every single person has a million dollars. In short, your proposal doesn't make employees more valuable, ir makes education worthless.
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If you have a job that needs doing, and that job can be better done by someone with a degree, because in getting the degree they also acquired the skills necessary for the job, then clearly that degree does have value. And, if more people have a degree, and thus the skills necessary for the job, it will be easier to find someone to do that particular job.

Seems like a good thing to me.
 
Kid Eager said:
Wouldn't having a degree also have a collateral effect of changing behaviours?

Beyond the "more educated" aspect of the degree outcome, increased ability to organise, work with others, or plan work better could also be a useful result.

KE
Click to expand...
Correct. In Australia, at least, science graduates have amonst the highest employability rates - just not in scientific fields. The skills and disciplines gained along the way makes them highly valued employees. I currently do business with an organisation which "enbeds" science graduates in companies to give the company new perspectives.
 
daenku32 said:
Surely this would be a good thing. It would means the people would be a lot smarter on the whole.

And there would be greater choice when it comes time to hiring. The pools of potential employees would be much greater.

But I sense that others don't feel this way. Am I right on that?
Click to expand...

I don't think I will take your bait at this moment.

Better luck next time, Mr Troll.
 
I think gaining a 4-year degree at the very least shows the person can set a goal in the future, and achieve that.
Which is superior to the will-o-the-wisps McDonalds workers.
 
I scribble on walls, no more than a high school degree, and yet I realize the subjectivity of all meaning! Eat that.
 
brenn said:
...The economic value of a degree is in its rarity. ... In short, your proposal doesn't make employees more valuable, ir makes education worthless.
Click to expand...

By your insinuation that the rarity makes it valuable, it implies that the 120+ credit hours behind the degree are worthless.

Surely there is at least some worth given by the fact that a student passed all those courses. And even more so if they can show that they passed them with good grades.

On a caveat, I know how shallow job interviews are, so there's that.

PS. Those C average doctors and engineers can still get them jobs flipping burgers. I don't want them operating on me or fixing my airplanes anyways.
 
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and advanced education for everyone could never hurt. Too many of us couldnt continue our education past K-12 (in the US) because of financial and social reasons.

If we all had degrees smart, capable and worthwhile employees would still exsist...and still be more valuable.

A perfect world for me would be one were we are all exposed to the same enriching knowledge....IMO...
 
All life on Earth is related. Dogs are your cousins. Parents roll dice when they put their kids together and some kids come up snake-eyes. The human and canine IQ curves overlap. What degree do you propose to award to my neighbor's rotweiler? Find an early 20th century medical encyclopedia and read the article on "monsters". Sometimes women go into the obstetric ward and come home empty-handed, leaving behind in the hospital balls of fur with organs inside or a perfectly formed trunk with arms and legs, a knot at the top of the spine, and an open hole for the trachaea and esophagus. With modern technology we could keep these things at 37 Cofor fifty years, maybe. Why wait until age 22 to award it a BS in Particle Physics? Why not give everyone a PhD at birth?
 
You have an argument? Let's see it.
My point is that schools perform three usuful functions: they teach, they test, and they certify. They also employ swarms of public-sector workers, provide plushly padded construction contracts to politically-connected insiders, and indoctrinate the next generation of obedient taxpayers willing to support university faculty in a life of leisure. The original post said nothing about the process, so I suggested that unspoken assumptions needed examination.
 
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There's a huge difference between "education" and "school". You want to learn European History or read Russian literature in translation? Go to Borders and buy a book or ten. You don't need to waste four years of your life, $50,000 of your fellow citizens' tax money and another $XXX of your own to kiss some parasite's
toes.
If school is not an employment program for dues-paying members of public-sector unions, a source of padded construction, supply, and consulting contracts for politically-connected insiders, and a venue for State-worshipful indoctrination, why cannot any student satisfy course requirements credit-by-exam?

If it is fraud for a mechanic to charge for the repair of a functional motor and if it is fraud for a physician to charge for the treatment of a healthy patient, then it is fraud for an instructor, school, or government to charge for the instruction of a student who does not need help.

I recommend Ivar Berg's Education and Jobs: The Great Training Robbery.
 
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