Europe cracks down on illegal immigration

[jay gw]

LONDON : Unskilled foreigners will find it harder to migrate to Britain under new proposals due to be announced. The plans also call for stricter screening of asylum seekers and tighter border controls, the country's interior minister said.

The government of Prime Minister Tony Blair has drawn up the five-year blueprint just three months before an expected general election in which immigration will be a major theme.

"We believe that economic migrants are of great value to this country. They provide skills and goods which help us to establish and strengthen our economy, as indeed do students coming into the country," Home Secretary Charles Clarke told BBC television in an interview.

"But we want to ensure that the people who do come into the country are the people who do bring us those benefits," the minister said.

"We will establish a system... which looks at the skills, talents, abilities of people seeking to come and work in this country, and ensures that when they come here they have a job and can contribute to the economy of the country."

About 140,000 people per year move to Britain to work, according to Clarke.

At the same time, he acknowledged that it was "very difficult" to estimate the number of people who enter the country illegally.

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/afp_world/view/131194/1/.html

By contrast, the United States lets anyone in regardless of job skills or knowledge of English.

 

[Zep]

By contrast, the United States lets anyone in regardless of job skills or knowledge of English.

Horse hockey. There's a remarkable amount of pick-and-choose INconsistency about how the USA allows workers to move in permanently.

For example, I'm a highly educated person skilled in current computer technology, speak English very well, from an allied country. I would have to wait weeks to months (possibly years) to obtain a work permit for longer than a few weeks (visiting visa), PLUS I would have to be sponsored by a US company, PLUS I may have to show that I'm not displacing a US citizen from any job I did obtain.

And yet I gather from other conservative posters here that the Rio Grande is thick with Mexcians going back and forth into the border US states, without work visas of any sort. In fact, that much of the local economies ride on their backs. Ditto Canadians in the north. (This is a summary of their view, you understand.)

So with respect to the OP, perhaps you might stick to the topic, and not try to draw invalid comparisons.

 

[Iconoclast]

The thread title is about illegal immigration, but almost everything you referenced from the article was about tough restrictions on legal immigration. WTF?

By contrast, the United States lets anyone in regardless of job skills or knowledge of English.

I take it you've never tried to obtain a green card. Excepting the Green Card Lottery, getting into USA these days is very difficult unless you're lucky enough to have some specific, uncommon skillset.

 

[jay gw]

For example, I'm a highly educated person skilled in current computer technology, speak English very well, from an allied country. I would have to wait weeks to months (possibly years) to obtain a work permit for longer than a few weeks (visiting visa), PLUS I would have to be sponsored by a US company, PLUS I may have to show that I'm not displacing a US citizen from any job I did obtain.

And yet I gather from other conservative posters here that the Rio Grande is thick with Mexcians going back and forth into the border US states, without work visas of any sort. In fact, that much of the local economies ride on their backs. Ditto Canadians in the north. (This is a summary of their view, you understand.)

You just illustrated my point, thanks. I couldn't have said it better myself, that educated workers are kept out of the US and uneducated non English speakers travel freely across the borders, take jobs with or without papers, and the employers aren't punished as according to law they should be.

Again, thanks for putting it so well.

In fact, that much of the local economies ride on their backs.

The border cities of the US/Mexico are now about 90 percent Mexican....no, that's not the Mexican side. It's the American. About 30 years ago it was 60 percent native White, and 40 percent illegal alien Hispanic. I would say that 85 percent of the 'legal' population of 30 million plus Hispanics are descended from an illegal ancestor crossing the border. None of the procedures applying to you have any relevance to them.

Anyone who really wants to emigrate to the United States should do this: buy a plane ticket, book a "holiday" disappear in the city. The end. Nobody sends illegals back, so it doesn't matter how anyone gets inside in the first place. Only an idiot would go through formal procedures like work visas.

A quiz- name one Australian that's ever been deported from America for immigration violations.

The Immigration and Naturalization Service (INS) estimates that in January of 2000 there were 7 million illegal aliens living in the United States, a number that is growing by half a million a year. Thus, the illegal-alien population in 2003 stands at at least 8 million. Included in this estimate are approximately 78,000 illegal aliens from countries who are of special concern in the war on terror.

http://www.cis.org/topics/illegalimmigration.html

 

[H3LL]

A quiz- name one Australian that's ever been deported from America for immigration violations.

First Google hit: Sally Wilson

By sally wilson on Thursday, September 9, 2004 - 11:37 pm:

Hello,
I am an Australian citizan and was deported from the USA (Atlanta Aiport) on the 16/17th June.
I previously had a J1 visa (Dec 03-May 04) and in mid April flew from denver to cuba (via mexico) for spanish learning holiday.

I was travelling back to USA to collect winter clothes and ski equipment, travelling for a bit then heading home in early September. The officers didn't believe me and questioned me for about 5 hours as to my intensions entering the USA and didn't believe I had funds to support myself. They called my mother to prove funds and mum she I had enough then they asked if I had had intensions to work back in Aspen, she said I dont know...maybe?

From this they took as yes and read me my writes and that was it.

I had to spend the night in a jail as the next flight to catch was the following day. Could you please provide me with the name of the jail they would have sent me to?

Additionally I asked if I could fly from Atlanta to LA as that was where my return flight to Australia was leaving from but they didn't allow me to travel to LA.....Is that true?

So I was forced to pay US$5090 to get flight home (via Japan)....is there ANY way to get some compensation back from this flight?

One more Q....I would like to appeal this deportation what is the process and who should I begin to contact? (I am in the process of documenting everything now.
thanks, Sally Wilson

Do I win a prize?

 

[Zep]

You just illustrated my point, thanks. I couldn't have said it better myself, that educated workers are kept out of the US and uneducated non English speakers travel freely across the borders, take jobs with or without papers, and the employers aren't punished as according to law they should be.

Again, thanks for putting it so well.

The border cities of the US/Mexico are now about 90 percent Mexican....no, that's not the Mexican side. It's the American. About 30 years ago it was 60 percent native White, and 40 percent illegal alien Hispanic. I would say that 85 percent of the 'legal' population of 30 million plus Hispanics are descended from an illegal ancestor crossing the border. None of the procedures applying to you have any relevance to them.

Anyone who really wants to emigrate to the United States should do this: buy a plane ticket, book a "holiday" disappear in the city. The end. Nobody sends illegals back, so it doesn't matter how anyone gets inside in the first place. Only an idiot would go through formal procedures like work visas.

A quiz- name one Australian that's ever been deported from America for immigration violations.

Thanks, H3LL! That one will do! I was about to provide a list of deported Aussies, among whom is one Mamdouh Habib, recent occupant of a cell in Gitmo.

The Immigration and Naturalization Service (INS) estimates that in January of 2000 there were 7 million illegal aliens living in the United States, a number that is growing by half a million a year. Thus, the illegal-alien population in 2003 stands at at least 8 million. Included in this estimate are approximately 78,000 illegal aliens from countries who are of special concern in the war on terror.

http://www.cis.org/topics/illegalimmigration.html

Actually, you have contradicted yourself. Your original wording was "...the United States lets anyone in regardless of job skills or knowledge of English." This implies that job and language skills are not evaluated for ANY immigrants, nor their country of origin or racial background.

However we both seem to have agreed that your original statement is indeed an incorrect situational assessment (for whatever the reasons may be). So would you please make up your mind what your argument actually is, if you have one.

Summary I believe you have provided so far: Europe is toughening up guest-worker laws; meanwhile the USA is not applying theirs altogether consistently.

 

[jay gw]

Actually, you have contradicted yourself. Your original wording was "...the United States lets anyone in regardless of job skills or knowledge of English." This implies that job and language skills are not evaluated for ANY immigrants, nor their country of origin or racial background.

Sorry, what I meant to say that if you're anyone except Latin American immigrants, language and job skills are evaluated.

My mistake.

I was travelling back to USA to collect winter clothes and ski equipment, travelling for a bit then heading home in early September. The officers didn't believe me and questioned me for about 5 hours as to my intensions entering the USA and didn't believe I had funds to support myself.

Oh. So she was at the border trying to get in? That's not the same thing as living in a country. If you don't have the proper papers and want to wander back and forth between countries, you must be stupid or something. Sorry to be rude, but I would never do that, so I can't comment.

The enforcement of labor laws is what I'm focusing on, not border laws. Anybody dumb enough to travel between countries without the right papers is just asking for trouble. Once you're inside the US, nobody cares.

 

[H3LL]

Oh. So she was at the border trying to get in? That's not the same thing as living in a country.

I never said it was. I just answered you quiz question.

No prize then?

It would seem that your quiz question was just poorly worded, ambiguous, poorly researched, lacking evidence to support it and clouded in obfuscation like most of the rest of the post.

Why don't you just go with "I don't like Latin Americans" and be done with it and everyone can just concentrate on hurling derision at you for that?

 

[ZeeGerman]

Not a single brit took offense against GB being equated to "Europe" yet. There's hope then

Zee

 

[H3LL]

Not a single brit took offense against GB being equated to "Europe" yet. There's hope then

Zee

Shouldn't it be the other way around. I'm waiting for the other Europeans to take offense at Britain = Europe.

It seems to be OK with the Germans.

I suspect most people don't bother to wade through the steamed noodles that jay gw considers straight talking.

 

[geni]

Not a single brit took offense against GB being equated to "Europe" yet. There's hope then

Zee

Look at the posting time on the thread. However since most of imigrants seem to come from france it could be argued this is an Eu wide issue.

 

[H3LL]

Look at the posting time on the thread. ...

Are you reading it as July?

I'm not sure what you mean unless you think we have all time-travelled!?!

Or do you mean the link maybe 1994?

Edit to add: It goes to a news item for 7th Feb 2005.

Sorry. You have lost me Geni.

 

[Matabiri]

"We will establish a system... which looks at the skills, talents, abilities of people seeking to come and work in this country, and ensures that when they come here they have a job and can contribute to the economy of the country."

Now, if only they'd deport those natives who don't meet those standards, as well...

 

[ZeeGerman]

Are you reading it as July?

I'm not sure what you mean unless you think we have all time-travelled!?!

Or do you mean the link maybe 1994?

Edit to add: It goes to a news item for 7th Feb 2005.

Sorry. You have lost me Geni.

I guess he meant the 11:48 PM. That's 48 minutes after the pubs close in Brittain and everybody is well in bed already.

Zee

 

[geni]

I guess he meant the 11:48 PM. That's 48 minutes after the pubs close in Brittain and everybody is well in bed already.

Zee

It was posted on a sunday. So the pubs don't stay open quite so late.

 

[richardm]

I guess he meant the 11:48 PM. That's 48 minutes after the pubs close in Brittain

Not for very much longer

 

[H3LL]

It was posted on a sunday. So the pubs don't stay open quite so late.

I'm not in the UK so it shows a different time. Sorry.

 

[geni]

Not for very much longer

I suspect that the majority of pubs will not change their hours.

 

[richardm]

I'd be astounded if most of them didn't change their hours. Pub owners are as keen to make money as the next person.

 

[geni]

I'd be astounded if most of them didn't change their hours. Pub owners are as keen to make money as the next person.

Longer hours mean that you have to employ staff latter. If you market is students then they will for the most part want to go to clubs by 11 anyway.