EU retaliates against US "free trade"

Jon_in_london

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Yes! the US, that bastion of free trade, has still not removed its illegal tax breaks three years after being told to do so by the WTO.

This is in addition to the US slapping illegal 30% tariffs on steel imports.

Isnt globalisation great? Its one rule for the rest of the world and the US does as it pleases.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/3243423.stm
 
Sometimes, this sort of action is the only language people understand.

The list, which includes Harley Davidson motorcycles, citrus fruit, and textile products, is said to have been calculated so as to hit hardest regions which support President Bush's Republican party.
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It'll be interesting to see if this has an effect. Probably no-one will admit it if does work, though.
 
Jon_in_london said:
Yes! the US, that bastion of free trade, has still not removed its illegal tax breaks three years after being told to do so by the WTO.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/3243423.stm
Click to expand...

“Illegal” tax breaks?

What sovereign body has passed a law here? The WTO? Sorry, but trade organizations that are not governments do not make laws. Poor choice of words on your part.

That said, If we are going to talk about violating international agreements, we should probably look at agricultural subsidies. I suspect if we compiled a list of countries that cheat on those agreements it will be a very long list.

Of course, countries use all sorts of different tricks to close their markets to imports. Tariffs and tax breaks are just the most obvious and unimaginative methods.
 
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The list, which includes Harley Davidson motorcycles, citrus fruit, and textile products, is said to have been calculated so as to hit hardest regions which support President Bush's Republican party.
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Now, if I was going to hit a Harley hard, the least I'd use is a sledge hammer, preferably a hydraulic press.
 
Poor EU. :v:

When they play fair, I'll care.

http://www.naturalproductsinsider.com/hotnews/35h14142318.html
http://www.maketradefair.org.hk/trad/news18_1.html
http://www.metroeireann.com/contentsjuly03/group.htm
http://www.fb.com/news/nr/nr98/nr0507.html
http://www.cbs.gov.on.ca/mcbs/english/2712_38a.htm
http://usembassy.state.gov/tokyo/wwwheco20021202a1.html

One rule for the US, and another for the rest of the world. And no rules for the EU, because, as we all know, they're better than everyone else, and whatever they choose to do must be right.
 
Frist thing:
Micheal Redman
Just because the EU breaks rules, this doesn´t mean anyone else is allowed to do the same - because the EU isn´t allowed either.

Doubt
The US has always insisted that everyone else does what the WTO says; anyone who disobeyed has faced retributive measures (economically speaking) by the WTO and by the US. So it is only fair that the US should abide by what the WTO says.

And that doesn´t even begin to mention that the WTO has, in effect, always been a tool to keep developing countries from becoming competition to the industrialized countries...
 
Of course the US should abide the WTO, but so should the EU. And, like the US, the EU thumbs it's collective nose at the WTO when it feels it's interests are better served.

The US insists that others obey the WTO? Really? And the EU doesn't? So it's OK for them to violate WTO rules?

EU appologists are supremely hypocritical in implying that the US is somehow unique in this manner.
 
Chaos said:
Frist thing:

Doubt
The US has always insisted that everyone else does what the WTO says; anyone who disobeyed has faced retributive measures (economically speaking) by the WTO and by the US. So it is only fair that the US should abide by what the WTO says.

And that doesn´t even begin to mention that the WTO has, in effect, always been a tool to keep developing countries from becoming competition to the industrialized countries...
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The problem here is that everyone is pointing fingers and acting as if their countires are not in violation.

So lets look at how one EU member dealt with a problem in their steel industry.

Ever heard of Usinor Sacilor? It is the French Steel company and it is owned by the French Government. Their mills failed as business. Rather than use sanctions, they moved what was left from the public sector into a government controlled business. Where are the other EU members protesting this extreme violation of the WTO?

Now just for reference, I do work in the US steel industry. It appears that some enterprising Russians have found a great way around the tariffs. If all goes well, my employers will sell us to a Russian steel firm before January 1st. What would the EU say if the US government nationalized us instead?
 
Michael Redman said:

EU appologists are supremely hypocritical in implying that the US is somehow unique in this manner.
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Can you give an example of where the EU has for three years refused to comply with a WTO ruling? Can you give an example of the WTO giving permission for other countries to impose sanctions as a result?
 
Jon_in_london said:


Can you give an example of where the EU has for three years refused to comply with a WTO ruling? Can you give an example of the WTO giving permission for other countries to impose sanctions as a result?
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I've got a vague recollection of something related to GM products. Or it could be that the EU is obeying the principle of the WTO ruling, but is using a wrangle over labelling to avoid actually implementing it.

I dunno, I guess I should be happy about the WTO's decision wrt the US, but overall imo it just shows the WTO up to be what it is; a privileged boys' club with no real concern for the actual issues its supposed to address.
 
Re: Re: EU retaliates against US "free trade"

Doubt said:


“Illegal” tax breaks?

What sovereign body has passed a law here? The WTO? Sorry, but trade organizations that are not governments do not make laws. Poor choice of words on your part.

That said, If we are going to talk about violating international agreements, we should probably look at agricultural subsidies. I suspect if we compiled a list of countries that cheat on those agreements it will be a very long list.

Of course, countries use all sorts of different tricks to close their markets to imports. Tariffs and tax breaks are just the most obvious and unimaginative methods.
Click to expand...

The WTO is an organisation that the US voluntarily belongs to. It is quite free to leave at any time. The tarrifs are levied by the importers of the US goods, and they have the right to make them whatever they want them to be.
 
Jon_in_london said:


Can you give an example of where the EU has for three years refused to comply with a WTO ruling? Can you give an example of the WTO giving permission for other countries to impose sanctions as a result?
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The EU as a whole provides massive subsidies to inefficient farmers. Now, this may or may not be a bad thing, but it does breach the spirit of free trade.
 
a_unique_person said:


The EU as a whole provides massive subsidies to inefficient farmers. Now, this may or may not be a bad thing, but it does breach the spirit of free trade.
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Indeed...

As well as heavily subsidizing aeronautics industry, which as the Concorde showed didn't work out well.

I don't know there is something about a kettle and a pot and black.
 
Mike B. said:


Indeed...

As well as heavily subsidizing aeronautics industry, which as the Concorde showed didn't work out well.

I don't know there is something about a kettle and a pot and black.
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As opposed to the US which subsidises its civil aircraft industry via the usual means (expensive defens(c)e contracts)

The reason protectionism sticks in my craw is that each side insists that their trading partners observe free trade whilst maintaining their own trade barriers.

The reason that people get upset with the US is that they are teh most vociferous
 
Trade wars are exercises in stupidity.

Every action imposes a cost on yourself. These latest EU initiatives exert a cost on the people of Europe. In the same way the previous US actions imposed a cost on Americans.

stupid, stupid stupid

The best analolgy I could think of is a gangster trying to punish someone by chopping off his fingers, but the only way he can do it is to hold his hand over that of the victim. When he chops of his victim's fingers he chops off some of his own as well.

"That showed him!!" :rolleyes:
 
Jon_in_london said:
Can you give an example of where the EU has for three years refused to comply with a WTO ruling? Can you give an example of the WTO giving permission for other countries to impose sanctions as a result?
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Are you claiming that the EU is blameless, and therefore the one sided criticism isn't hypocracy? If not, then I fail to see your point. If so, then I see no value in further discussion.
 
Drooper said:
Trade wars are exercises in stupidity.

Every action imposes a cost on yourself. These latest EU initiatives exert a cost on the people of Europe. In the same way the previous US actions imposed a cost on Americans.
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But there must be some kind of rational self-interest at the heart of such actions, i.e. that the benefit of taking such action is worth its cost, or at least that the cost of such action is less than the cost of not taking such action?

For instance, the British Empire used rather, ahem, restrictive trade practices on its colonies to force them into buying British goods which would have been cheaper to produce and purchase locally, and as such would've benefitted the British consumer more. But this would have led to the running down of British industries which would have had a far greater economic and political cost (or something like that).
 
Jon_in_london said:


Can you give an example of where the EU has for three years refused to comply with a WTO ruling? Can you give an example of the WTO giving permission for other countries to impose sanctions as a result?
Click to expand...


The EU banana dispute, the EU bef dispute (that was a good one - even the European Court of Justice ordered the EU to comply).
 
BillyTK said:

But there must be some kind of rational self-interest at the heart of such actions, i.e. that the benefit of taking such action is worth its cost, or at least that the cost of such action is less than the cost of not taking such action?

For instance, the British Empire used rather, ahem, restrictive trade practices on its colonies to force them into buying British goods which would have been cheaper to produce and purchase locally, and as such would've benefitted the British consumer more. But this would have led to the running down of British industries which would have had a far greater economic and political cost (or something like that).
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If it in some way was a very short-term punishment strategy that led to freedom of movement of goods and services, you might be able to make the case. However, no country has exhibited that level of faith in free trade.

On you second para, this is known as Mercantilism. This was the belief, especially in the 18th century. Economics has come a long way since then, unfortunately, politicians and general knowledge of economics haven't.

It is in fact lose/lose.

I don't have time at the moment, but I will return and illustrate why this is so.
 
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