Electronic cigarettes (again)

[Lowpro]

Before I go in, there are two other threads on electronic cigarettes, but both kinda got sidetracked very early with FDA/political stances, so I figured I'd make another one, and ask a mod what they think should happen whether this one'll get merged or not.

I've been smoking since I was 16, I'm 23 now and quit last December cold turkey and it sucks. The reason I stopped isn't to get off nicotine though, it's purely because it (shockingly) makes it more difficult to breath during exercise and makes bronchial infections harder to recover from. Basically the smoke inhalation is what I don't care for. I don't want the cancer too, but it's not really the prime motivator. I'm all for the nicotine though, and I don't really mind the stigma.

So now there are these e-cigarettes. They have the nicotine, but no smoke so no tars or things that can (I imagine) cause respiratory stress any more than regular breathing, though I don't know for sure. A quick pubmed scan I found one article but I cannot access it through my school (no subscription)

http://www.nursing.theclinics.com/article/S0029-6465(11)00063-6/abstract

The abstract is vague though, you can't conclude anything off of it, which to me makes me think the paper may be a bit crummy anyways.

So just thought I'd ask here, does anyone know about the health risks of e-cigarettes in comparison to normal ones or are the e-cigs really just nicotine-in-a-cartridge?

 

[crimresearch]

'Just nicotine' does not equate to perfectly safe. Nicotine is still an addictive substance from the alkaloid family.

The research on health risks of e-cigs is weighted by the fact that they are enormously *safer* because of the lack of combustion... but again, not the same as 'safe'.

Nicotine patches have been around a while, but it seems that people either quit using them after a while, or go back to smoking high numbers... either way there is little data on their adverse effects.

 

[theprestige]

What worries me about e-cigs is secondhand steam.

 

[Lowpro]

'Just nicotine' does not equate to perfectly safe. Nicotine is still an addictive substance from the alkaloid family.

The research on health risks of e-cigs is weighted by the fact that they are enormously *safer* because of the lack of combustion... but again, not the same as 'safe'.

Nicotine patches have been around a while, but it seems that people either quit using them after a while, or go back to smoking high numbers... either way there is little data on their adverse effects.

Right right, I know nicotine is addictive, and I'm addicted to it. However the reason I quit smoking wasn't to lose the nic addiction, it's because the smoking itself is killing my respiratory system. It's hard to breath and even after a month or so I do feel better. I just want to know if an e-cigarette does harm to the respiratory system. I'd also like to know what carcinogens that an e-cig would lack in comparison to a normal cigarette.

I'm not looking to quit the nicotine, but I do want to quit the smoke. E-cigarettes are still inhaled, and I'm concerned if they also have adverse respiratory effects.

 

[JWideman]

We don't know. The manufacturers claiming they are safe haven't exactly provided the research to support that. Nicotine is not a carcinogen. However, it directly contributes to cancer.
I will point out that it only takes 3 weeks to break nicotine addiction. At this point, you should be over the physical withdrawal and cravings. Why would you want that monkey on your back again?

 

[Lowpro]

It was never a monkey. I never went through withdrawals though I did have agitation. It sucked because I do a lot of work with a lot of downtime in between (general molecular biology experiments) so if I'm reading a paper, I want to smoke. If I'm running a thermocycler, I want to go smoke. I have a bunch of breaks and nothing to entertain myself with; that was agitating as hell.

But I'm not done with the cravings either, which is why it's interesting to read that it takes 3 weeks to end them. Like hell it does. I've tried nicotine patches too, but they don't cover the habit.

 

[jasonpatterson]

A youtuber named C0nc0rdance recently made a video about e-cigarettes. He generally does reasonable coverage of health topics and uses scientific resources to back up any claims. Here's the quick version, citations are available in the additional info on the video's page.

 

[Lowpro]

Hey thanks for the video. Sounds more like e-cigs are really just nic patches since they don't have the spike and well, I didn't like the nic patches because there was no spike. Also that video linked e-cigs to hipsters, therefor I have no desire to be associated with them.

Hmm, interesting. Well, I'm still quit cold turkey off cigs but guess I'll have to deal with the agitation till I find something else to fall into.

 

[pipelineaudio]

I went from smoking to nicotene lozenges, lost three teeth from them and now am on swedish snus. I know they are tobacco, therefore magically evil and we need obama to be PACT man to protect us from them, but any decent papers I see on them just dont give me the fear that smoking does

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snus

Unfortunately, Obama has made these almost as expensive as nicotene lozenges recently, so unless you are someplace where they are available locally, look to still spend 100 bucks every 3 months or so

 

[SeanDamnit]

Biggest issue is that you can't stop looking like a tool while smoking them.

Remember why you started smoking in the first place...to look cool.

 

[Cuddles]

Nicotine is not a carcinogen.

Actually, it probably is:

Historically, nicotine has not been regarded as a carcinogen and the IARC has not evaluated nicotine in its standalone form and assigned it to an official carcinogen group. While no epidemiological evidence supports that nicotine alone acts as a carcinogen in the formation of human cancer, research over the last decade has identified nicotine's carcinogenic potential in animal models and cell culture.

It's not officially listed as a carcinogen because no-one's actually studied it, but there is evidence showing it's carcinogenic in lab experiments and therefore may well be in the real world as well.

I just want to know if an e-cigarette does harm to the respiratory system.

As noted above, nicotine is probably carcinogenic on its own, as well as making existing cancers worse. It also appears to cause birth defects, although if you're not a pregnant woman that's probably less of a worry. So definitely not completely harmless. Certainly nowhere near as bad as smoking though, and I suspect things like diet and local pollution will be more significant.

I'd also like to know what carcinogens that an e-cig would lack in comparison to a normal cigarette.

Most of these. Although I've also seen claims that cigarette smoke contains as many as 60 carcinogens, so that may not be a complete list. According to this, some of those have been detected in certain electronic cigarettes, but whether it's enough to worry about seems to be up for debate.

 

[Lowpro]

Thought it may be worth the bump. I've been using an electronic cigarette for about a month now, and I'm actually happy with them. They're different but the general cigarette habit is dead. I just take a few puffs here and there and feel much better.

I'm still concerned as far as respiratory damage is concerned but what I was worried about (general tissue damage) aren't any risk with them.

I'm happy with them.

 

[surrogate]

I switched to e-cigs about two months ago after smoking 1.5+ packs a day for over 25 years. I feel like my breathing has improved, I don't get random chest pains as often, and wake up far less frequently during the night. I do get sort of a phlegmy, thick saliva feeling in my throat/back of my mouth on occasion, but I read that is to be expected. It may or may not be any less unhealthy, but it is less costly over time for me than spending nearly $10 a day on cigarettes, and is generally less of a mess than ashes and cigarette butts. You need to be careful with the nicotine juice, from what I've read, it is quite toxic. Don't get it on your skin or in your mouth. Also, you should read up on battery safety, as there is a chance of them failing in a dangerous manner. Good luck.

 

[Lowpro]

Yea I was about 20 bucks a week, a pack from Mon through Thurs (usually 6 cigs a day) and then a pack and a half friday through sunday.

I hate the damned bottles though, I've gone to dripping instead of using a cartridge because cartridges suck to fill with the liquid being as viscous as it is, it just won't drip through the hole.

 

[Libra]

. . . I'm still concerned as far as respiratory damage is concerned but what I was worried about (general tissue damage) aren't any risk with them . . .

Is it possible that the effects of vapourizing either a propylene glycol- or glycerin-based carrier liquid will only show after prolonged use ?



On surrogate's report on the phlegmy and thick saliva in the throat/back of the mouth, could this be the lungs busy "repairing" itself and casting out the unwanted material ?

 

[Menalitus]

I've been using an ECig since early September and haven't smoked an "analogue" since then. The way I look at it is that with smoking you KNOW you are inhaling smoke containing 2000+ poisonous and often carcinogenic chemicals and as well as Tar which is not water soluble and clogs your lungs up like crazy.

I have now replaced them with something which has no real evidence of having any ill effects (although it clearly might). The smoke is primarily made up of non toxic water soluble chemicals so if it goes into your lungs it sure as **** won't do the damage that the Tar in cigs does.

For me the Odds are a no brainer...

Of course quitting is always preferable but I like smoking and after numerous attempts have failed to quit. I now have a cheaper but equally enjoyable habit that (at least in the UK) I can use in Pubs and public buildings. It is also a bit of a gadget and has loads of accessories which is a double bonus for me being a bit of a gadget freak.

Oh, i guess I should also declare an interest, since starting smoking ECigs I have bought wholesale and now sell them in the UK. <SNIP>

Its a win win for me!

Edited by Locknar: 

Edited, breach of rule 6 (E4).

 

[casebro]

It was never a monkey. I never went through withdrawals though I did have agitation. It sucked because I do a lot of work with a lot of downtime in between (general molecular biology experiments) so if I'm reading a paper, I want to smoke. If I'm running a thermocycler, I want to go smoke. I have a bunch of breaks and nothing to entertain myself with; that was agitating as hell.

But I'm not done with the cravings either, which is why it's interesting to read that it takes 3 weeks to end them. Like hell it does. I've tried nicotine patches too, but they don't cover the habit.

Lowpro, this post makes it sound like you need something to fidget with, NOT you need nicotine.

I suppose an e-cig is like smoking a pipe- needs cleaning, packing, it's the fidgeting that do you good. Maybe it's the fidgeting that is missing from the patches, NOT the nicotine?

Though I suppose fiddling with an e-cig is better than chewing your hair or nails, plucking at your eye brows, or scratching at Morgellon's.

Chewing on rawhide keeps my dogs busy...

 

[Bikewer]

I have wondered why, in the last 40 years or so, anyone would start smoking. Even back in the 60s when I was a teen, the deleterious effects of smoking were beginning to be published, and shortly thereafter confirmed. This information was available to the public; it was no secret.
I could understand why those already addicted continued to smoke or to struggle unsucccessfully with quitting.
But why would anyone pick up a cigarrette?
Is it just a case that teens are essentially stupid? That they do all the silly rationalizations that people always have? "I can quit whenever I want." "Well, you have to die of something." "I just need something to do with my hands." "It's good for my nerves."
(without understanding that the attack of "nerves" is just nicotine cravings...)
And so on....
One of the things that would incense me is that I would be enriching the bastards who are marketing this poison to people.

 

[Menalitus]

I think Kids probably generally fall for the cool factor, anythnig naughty and dangerous is by definition cool. Also of course under 20's generally feel pretty indestructable and old age and illness is a lifetime away. By the time they realise how stupid they have been it is too late and they are hooked on the nicotene and the habit.

 

[surrogate]

Yea I was about 20 bucks a week, a pack from Mon through Thurs (usually 6 cigs a day) and then a pack and a half friday through sunday.

I hate the damned bottles though, I've gone to dripping instead of using a cartridge because cartridges suck to fill with the liquid being as viscous as it is, it just won't drip through the hole.

Have you tried using cartomizers (cartridge/atomizer combo)? I find them to be the easiest option. I usually use a 50% PG/ 50%VG mix, so the liquid isn't to syrupy. I add a 4-5 drops every few hours and I get 1-2 weeks service out of each carto.