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Merged Economics, politics and the election

Solitaire

Neoclinus blanchardi
Joined
Jul 25, 2001
Messages
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Also those numbers don't add up. There's only 330 million people in the US. How is 25k housing subsidies and 3600/6000 child tax credits getting us to 1.7 trillion?

It's over a ten year period. I prefer a yearly cost approach.

110 Billion Expand CTC to $3,000 or $3,600 for young children
10 Billion Further expand CTC to $6,000 for newborns
40 Billion Extend the ACA premium tax credit expansion
15 Billion Expand the EITC for workers without child dependents
10 Billion Provide a $25,000 first-time homebuyer credit for four years
10 Billion Enact additional affordable housing policies for four years

So about 200 billion a year. Just a 1% general tax on the economy would pay for it.

Alas, raising taxes just ain't popular in Congress. So inflation it is.




Merged with the posts from


Kamala Harris Election Campaign

Posted By: jimbob
 
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From my perspective, it isn't. And it has been getting progressively worse for the majority of Americans. And it has been since 1980.

We have regulations like zoning that stifle the supply of housing. We subsidize agriculture in horrible ways that has led to a massive overproduction of corn that is used to produce ethanol instead of farms producing crops for food production. We have beef and chicken producers that monopolize and price gouge.

What I see are very few true free markets that adjust to true supply and demand conditions. Instead we have massive corporations that control the markets for the benefit of a very few.

The free market isn't a solution either, because all free markets do is devolve to monopolies.
 
Republicans tout free market economics, but regularly support corrupt crony capitalism that is crushing to many citizens. There is nothing free market about that.

I'm with Karl Marx (yes Karl Marx) when he said that the system of capitalism had done far more than any economic system ever created. But that the excesses create their own problems.

Capitalism died in the late 19th century, except in communist countries. Markets are way too heavily regulated to be considered capitalistic.
 
"My administration will provide first-time homebuyers with $25,000 to help with the down payment on a new home." - Kamala Harris on Twitter/X

https://x.com/kamalaharris/status/1825185984272577018

Bad idea. They did the same thing in the UK and here and all that happened was that builders raised the price of houses by the amount of the grant.

If you want the number of houses built to rise and prices to return to a reasonable level, get the state involved in building. Also build more medium sized apartment blocks.

Look to Red Vienna for your housing solutions, not torykip England.
 
One slightly good thing about the first-time buyer bonus would be that it would mean the price is effectively cheaper for first-timers than for people who've bought before, thus offsetting the market advantage that previous buyers otherwise have, while making no difference for the seller. But it doesn't address the origins of the problem.

In the USA for the last several years, the housing problem is partially supply & demand, and also partially the wallstreetification of the market: houses or even entire neighborhoods get bought by rich corporations, which removes them from the market for people wanting to buy a place to live, who are thus made more likely to need to resort to renting (from a corporation which will then save management costs by just not doing any of the stuff a landlord is supposed to do). In a lot of cases the buyers are even in another country.

There are a few ways the law could address that, such as a ban on real estate sales to buyers outside the country and/or a ban on real estate sales to buyers already owning more than a certain maximum number of rental units. The closest Kamal's proposals come to so far is one about buying houses "in bulk", but it doesn't say anything about a corporation buying just as many of them one at a time in separate deals instead of one bulk deal. The same proposal also says they wouldn't be allowed to rent them out at excessive prices, but doesn't define what would be excessive prices. And saying they can't do X "and" Y doesn't equal saying they can't do X "or" Y, and each component of this process is harmful by itself.

That kind of weasel-wording, coupled with the first-time buyer bonus which will result in more price-rising, means the corporations who are doing this to us won't have as much incentive to buy opposition to this in Congress, which might make these proposals easier to pass than if they looked more like they were really meant to do something serious about the nature of the problem.
 
In a perfect Market, profits would be zero.

Record profits are proof of market failure.
 
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Seriously, no one caught it?

A 110 billion dollars extra a year for a $600 increase in the Child Tax Credit, but only a 10 billion extra a year for another increase of $2400 in the CTC. Simply divide the 110 billion by 600 and you get 183.3 million children.

Now you might think that's a lot of children for a country of only 330 million people, but I know of an old lady with eighty eight cats who refers to them as her, "children."
 
Bad idea. They did the same thing in the UK and here and all that happened was that builders raised the price of houses by the amount of the grant.

If you want the number of houses built to rise and prices to return to a reasonable level, get the state involved in building. Also build more medium sized apartment blocks.

Look to Red Vienna for your housing solutions, not torykip England.

Higher building costs lead directly to higher house valuation, so the punter still ends up better off in the long run.
 
Seriously, no one caught it?

A 110 billion dollars extra a year for a $600 increase in the Child Tax Credit, but only a 10 billion extra a year for another increase of $2400 in the CTC. Simply divide the 110 billion by 600 and you get 183.3 million children.

Now you might think that's a lot of children for a country of only 330 million people, but I know of an old lady with eighty eight cats who refers to them as her, "children."

Already bought up the math. All I got was a standard snarky comment and an outright lie directed at me.
 
No, but it was a topical response to Armitage's anecdote about his mom. Hopefully the Harris campaign goes into the swing state with some understanding of basic factors in economics. Wouldn't you agree?

Or maybe I misunderstood. Maybe the point was that ignorance of basic economics is everywhere, and Harris will have her work cut out for her, trying to convince swing voters not to vote against their interests.


I should have included a quoted post. My anecdote was in response to the earlier statement that people often don't understand the source of the price increases they're facing.
 

It's a math mathematical fact of the model of a Perfect Market - complete competition means that everyone has to offer and buy at cost.

An economy with high profits is by definition not a working Market Economy and points to lack of transparency and massive power imbalance between buyers and sellers.
 
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It's 2024. We should be able to discuss how the pro and cons of economic systems without being beholden to some "pure" version of them some rich white guy made up a hundred years ago.

Karl Marx and John Maynard Keynes didn't live in a world with 3D Printers, the Internet, Enviromental Concerns, and the vague concept that working 90% of your waking life isn't an ideal to strive for.

**** arguments about "pure" capitalism and socialism and communism. What do we in the modern age think is the best system?
 
It's 2024. We should be able to discuss how the pro and cons of economic systems without being beholden to some "pure" version of them some rich white guy made up a hundred years ago.

Karl Marx and John Maynard Keynes didn't live in a world with 3D Printers, the Internet, Enviromental Concerns, and the vague concept that working 90% of your waking life isn't an ideal to strive for.

**** arguments about "pure" capitalism and socialism and communism. What do we in the modern age think is the best system?

A hybrid, obviously, taking the best elements of each theoretical economic system. And adjusting things practically as we go, not insisting we lay down principles that cannot be deviated from no matter what the actual real-world effects are.
 

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