Dyslexic drivers slow to react, claim boffins

[shanek]

Total nonsense.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/02/04/dyslexic_driver_study/

Dyslexic drivers are slower to react to traffic signs, a study by the Norwegian University of Science and Technology in Trondheim has shown. The researchers report that dyslexia impairs a driver's reaction times "as much as a moderate drinking session", according to a New Scientist report.

Lead boffin Hermundur Sigmundsson subjected 17 volunteers - six of whom were dyslexic - to two distinct tests.

Ah, yes, that's quite the representative sample there...no sample size problems here, no siree Bob!

The New Scientist notes: "The six dyslexic drivers took on average 0.13 seconds longer to react during the rural drive than the non-dyslexic controls and were 0.19 seconds slower in the city, where the simulated environment was more complex. In both tests the controls took around 0.6 seconds to respond, so the dyslexic drivers were experiencing a delay of 20 to 30%."

The researchers say that this result is in keeping with other probes which have shown that dyslexia "may affect the way the brain processes sensory information. For example, people with the condition were often clumsy as children, and passed childhood milestones such as crawling, walking and riding a bicycle later than other children."

I don't know what they're talking about, but it's not any kind of dyslexia I'm familiar with. I've always been coordinated, great balance, a good dancer, and a spotless driving record (and that's in Charlotte traffic!); my ex-wife, who's probably ten times as dyslexic as I am, ran track and hurdles and has a spotless driving record as well. I have never heard of dyslexics having problems with motor control or any other physical difficulties.

Oh, well. At least I learned what a "boffin" is...

 

[The Fool]

Total nonsense.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/02/04/dyslexic_driver_study/



Ah, yes, that's quite the representative sample there...no sample size problems here, no siree Bob!



I don't know what they're talking about, but it's not any kind of dyslexia I'm familiar with. I've always been coordinated, great balance, a good dancer, and a spotless driving record (and that's in Charlotte traffic!); my ex-wife, who's probably ten times as dyslexic as I am, ran track and hurdles and has a spotless driving record as well. I have never heard of dyslexics having problems with motor control or any other physical difficulties.

Oh, well. At least I learned what a "boffin" is...

So you are rejecting his findings because of small sample size (17)by siting your won experience and your ex wife....sample size two.....?


I also thing the reaction times he is talking about may include the time taken to interpret the sign and is not only dependent on how flash you are in your dancing shoes.


and I AM A FILTHY LIAR....(thought I would save you the trouble of typing it)

 

[Zep]

Shane, I think it depends on WHAT they are testing. I'm somewhat dyslexic also, and I know what the "differences" are for me.

For example, normal driving skills for dyslexics are no problem at all. Once the skills are ingrained there is usually no need to have to mentally figure out (once again!) left and right to make sense of a No-Left-Turn sign, etc. Any skills not requiring a left/right interpretation of messages would probably be unaffected.

However a situation where a dyslexic driver is suddenly told "TURN RIGHT!" is different! Then, indeed, reaction times may well be slower than "normal" due to the mental effort required as mentioned above. Whereas a sudden command to "STOP!" or "TURN THERE! (pointing)" would probably be acted on well within normal range of reaction time.

The testing method mentioned did NOT mention what the signs actually said, just that they were "Emergency signs". Who knows...

 

[AWPrime]

Shanek, there are multiple of factors involved; amount of traffic, the presentation of information, the serverity of the dyslexia and some others.

The bad cases of dyslexia do have reduced motor control. I can say that from my own experiances.

 

[MRC_Hans]

First of all, Shanek, unless you spend a lot of time proof-reading, you don't sem to be dyslexic to any significant degree.

Now, apart from the sample size, which IS indeed too small to get a statistically significant indication of such a small difference, I have another criticism:

Dyslexia is one effect from a number of root causes (genetical, and birth defects). So, the longer reaction time may be another effect of whatever root cause that gave the dyslexia. In other words, some of the test subjects may suffer from both dyslexia and long reaction time, due to some common cause. Which means that you cannot infer the reaction time for people that are dyslexic for other reasons.

Hans

 

[Ian Osborne]

I don't know what they're talking about, but it's not any kind of dyslexia I'm familiar with. I've always been coordinated, great balance, a good dancer, and a spotless driving record (and that's in Charlotte traffic!); my ex-wife, who's probably ten times as dyslexic as I am, ran track and hurdles and has a spotless driving record as well. I have never heard of dyslexics having problems with motor control or any other physical difficulties.

So that's why the two of you split. While giving your vows on your wedding day, you said, "with this grin I thee wed" and she thought you were having a laugh...

 

[shanek]

Re: Re: Dyslexic drivers slow to react, claim boffins

So you are rejecting his findings because of small sample size (17)by siting your won experience and your ex wife....sample size two.....?

And the fact that dyslexia is not in any way a physical disorder.

I also thing the reaction times he is talking about may include the time taken to interpret the sign

You don't need to "interpret the sign" if you already know what it means. Red octagon means stop; dyslexia doesn't get in the way of this.

 

[Iconoclast]

However a situation where a dyslexic driver is suddenly told "TURN RIGHT!" is different! Then, indeed, reaction times may well be slower than "normal" due to the mental effort required as mentioned above.

I remember an interview once with an Australian rally driver who was lysdexic. He'd divided his steering wheel into four quadrants, each a different colour, and his navigator would call out the turns by colour instead of direction. I thought that was a pretty cool solution.

 

[shanek]

For example, normal driving skills for dyslexics are no problem at all. Once the skills are ingrained there is usually no need to have to mentally figure out (once again!) left and right to make sense of a No-Left-Turn sign, etc.

Agreed. Left and right are pretty much useless constructs for me, yet I know exactly what "no left turn" and "no right on red" mean without even having to think about it.

However a situation where a dyslexic driver is suddenly told "TURN RIGHT!" is different! Then, indeed, reaction times may well be slower than "normal" due to the mental effort required as mentioned above.

Okay, but a) how often does that happen, and b) how often is something like that necessary to avoid an accident?

The testing method mentioned did NOT mention what the signs actually said, just that they were "Emergency signs". Who knows...

Emergency signs are standard. They shouldn't fool a dyslexic.

 

[shanek]

Dyslexia is one effect from a number of root causes (genetical, and birth defects). So, the longer reaction time may be another effect of whatever root cause that gave the dyslexia. In other words, some of the test subjects may suffer from both dyslexia and long reaction time, due to some common cause.

Exactly. Correlation ≠ causation.

And I do edit a lot; I'm just a fast typist.

 

[shanek]

Also, dyslexics can do anything anyone else can do, usually with no loss of speed or accuracy, once they learn to deal with the dyslexia. We just have to think around the problem in different ways.

With the way I type, I don't think of how the word is spelled; I think of the pattern it makes on the keyboard. If it's a new word or word I haven't typed much, like "pareidolia" (I think I got that right), then I really have to sit there and think about it. Otherwise, I can crank out 75wpm.

I sucked at spelling bees because I could never get the right letters out right. If they had let me simply write the word down (which they let them do now; bastards!) I could have blown them all away. I knew all of the words in the 6th grade spelling book when I was in 2nd grade. But I have to write the word down to know how it is spelled.

When I call someone up, I don't remember the phone number. I can't. It's impossible. But I can remember the pattern that dialing the sequence of numbers makes on the number pad.

Whenever someone asks me what someone's number is, I have to think about how the sequence of numbers on the keypad goes, and I read out the numbers as I get to them.

It's just a different way of having to think. You probably know a few people who are dyslexic, and you don't even realize it.

 

[Jocko]

Re: Re: Re: Dyslexic drivers slow to react, claim boffins

You don't need to "interpret the sign" if you already know what it means. Red octagon means stop; dyslexia doesn't get in the way of this.

Uh Oh, I thought it said "pots." Well, that would explain all those people honking at me all the time... I mean, who would slow down for pots? And what kind? Calphalon? Revereware?

 

[Jocko]

I remember an interview once with an Australian rally driver who was lysdexic. He'd divided his steering wheel into four quadrants, each a different colour, and his navigator would call out the turns by colour instead of direction. I thought that was a pretty cool solution.

I know I'd be giving him a wide berth on the track.

 

[Iconoclast]

I know I'd be giving him a wide berth on the track.

I take it you're not familiar with the racing format of rally.

 

[CFLarsen]

Total nonsense.

It makes perfect sense. Reading is merely understanding the symbols on the page in front of you. Since your brain cannot process the letters the same way normal people's brains do, it follows that you also must have some difficulty in decoding the traffic signs.

Sure, it's a lot easier to learn those signs than to learn the letters of the alphabet and stick them together to form words, but it's the exact same thing, in principle.

Don't challenge me on this one, Shanek. I work professionally with usability and user interfaces, and have done so for many years. I am the wrong person to doubt on how people understand symbols.

And the fact that dyslexia is not in any way a physical disorder.

Wrong.

Dyslexia is a specific learning disability that is neurological in origin.
...
Studies show that individuals with dyslexia process information in a different area of the brain than do non-dyslexics.
The International Dyslexia Association

Dyslexia is biological in origin and tends to run in families, but environmental factors may also contribute to it.
The Dyslexia Institute

It is a difference in the brain area that deals with language.
The British Dyslexia Association

I sincerely hope that you will admit that you are wrong.

 

[DavidJames]

Re: Re: Re: Dyslexic drivers slow to react, claim boffins

Originally posted by shanek You don't need to "interpret the sign" if you already know what it means. Red octagon means stop; dyslexia doesn't get in the way of this. [/B]

Tell me shanek, what' do rectangle signs mean?

 

[shanek]

It makes perfect sense. Reading is merely understanding the symbols on the page in front of you. Since your brain cannot process the letters the same way normal people's brains do, it follows that you also must have some difficulty in decoding the traffic signs.

No, it doesn't, for reasons I have already given.

Sure, it's a lot easier to learn those signs than to learn the letters of the alphabet and stick them together to form words, but it's the exact same thing, in principle.

No, it isn't. Not to a dyslexic.

Don't challenge me on this one, Shanek. I work professionally with usability and user interfaces, and have done so for many years. I am the wrong person to doubt on how people understand symbols.

I work with the exact same thing, and I'm dyslexic. Don't you dare sit there and try and tell me something about the disability I've had to work with my whole life.

Wrong.

Once again, you show your desperation in trying to prove anything I say wrong. I never said it wasn't biological in nature; I said it wasn't a physical disorder. It doesn't affect motor skills or reaction time in any way.

I sincerely hope that you will admit that you are wrong.

I sincerely hope you'll admit that you're a self-important bigoted pus-brain, but we can't all have what we want...

 

[shanek]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Dyslexic drivers slow to react, claim boffins

Tell me shanek, what' do rectangle signs mean?

Depends on the rectangle. White rectangle, black rectangle with a white diamond, yellow rectangle, yellow diamond, what?

Besides, being able to read signage actually has very little to do with how good a driver you are. There was another thread that proved that.

 

[CFLarsen]

No, it doesn't, for reasons I have already given.

So, your word simply overrules everything. Gotcha.

No, it isn't. Not to a dyslexic.

Yes, it is: It's a lack of pattern recognition, if you want to put it that way. You can't recognize letters the same way normal people can. It's exactly the same thing.

I work with the exact same thing, and I'm dyslexic. Don't you dare sit there and try and tell me something about the disability I've had to work with my whole life.

I hardly think you work with usability and user interfaces at the same level as I do, shanek. And I don't give a flying frig about your knowledge about dyslexia - you are wrong, plain and simple.

Once again, you show your desperation in trying to prove anything I say wrong. I never said it wasn't biological in nature; I said it wasn't a physical disorder. It doesn't affect motor skills or reaction time in any way.

It is a physical disorder, whether you like it or not. It's a brain malfunction. It's "neurological in origin". Your brain does not function normally.

Not a huge difference, granted, but still a noticable one.

I sincerely hope you'll admit that you're a self-important bigoted pus-brain, but we can't all have what we want...

I see. You will not admit to being wrong. You are more clever than the experts in the field. Gotcha.

Some day, you will have to admit that you are not the final authority on everything.

 

[shanek]

So, your word simply overrules everything. Gotcha.

I have given reasons, Claus, reasons that you have not responded to.

Yes, it is: It's a lack of pattern recognition,

No, it's not. Dyslexics actually generally perform better than average at pattern recognition. As I've already said, the way I remember how to type words and dial phone numbers is pattern recognition. My passwords are just jumbles of letters, numbers, and symbols (very secure that way) and instead of memorizing the sequence of characters I just remember the pattern they make on the keyboard. It's exactly as easy for me to remember that as it is to remember any other password.

You can't recognize letters the same way normal people can.

Yes, I can. It's just the sequencing that gets messed up. I'll remind you of what you said:

Sure, it's a lot easier to learn those signs than to learn the letters of the alphabet and stick them together to form words, but it's the exact same thing, in principle.

Again, it's not the same thing to a dyslexic.

I hardly think you work with usability and user interfaces at the same level as I do, shanek.

Whatever.

And I don't give a flying frig about your knowledge about dyslexia - you are wrong, plain and simple.

Right. The word of someone who isn't dyslexic and has no education or experience in people with learning disabilities is right, and someone who is dyslexic, has had to help out a wife with dyslexia, a son with learning disabilities, and who has studied the issue for 15 years is wrong.

Pathetic.

It is a physical disorder, whether you like it or not.

No, it isn't. It doesn't affect any physical functions. Not motor control, not reaction time, nothing.

It's a brain malfunction. It's "neurological in origin". Your brain does not function normally.

Then it's a neurological disorder, not a physical disorder. Duh.

[Claus's usual abuse deleted]