Druid? Funny, you don't look druish...

Lukraak_Sisser

Philosopher
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Druidy considered a religion in the UK

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11457795

Now don't get me wrong, I think its a good indication of how all religions are equally silly, but in my opinion they should all be DENIED tax breaks rather than allowed them.

But more to the point, if I recall in the original form wasn't human sacrifice a rather important ritual in the religion? I wonder if they want that re-instated too
 
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CNN said:
"Britain recognized Druidry, a neo-pagan belief system that believes nature is its supreme being, as a religion for the first time and gave it charitable status on Saturday."

> Link to Article <

"Yay" or nay?

Discuss.
 
I'm with you on religion not being taxless.
I think there is no evidence to sacrifice being part of their history though, more projection and specualtion and bias is cited than evidence.
 
As far as I can tell there is a lot of evidence of massive ox roasts being part of Druidic tradition. However there is little evidence of human sacrifices other than slanderous tales written by Christian monks trying to drive people away from the old religions.
 
It's about time, considering that druidism (British and Gallic) pre-dates Christianity by several centuries.

And I don't mean this in a neo-pagan, "matriarchal mother-goddess religion", unhistorical mish-mash sense. Caesar described the druids c. 55 BCE, and so did other classical historians before him.

The modern druidic revival began in the 18th century, so it's been due for legitimate state recognition for some time.
 
Caesar recounts the druids burning sacrificial victims alive inside wicker figures, but these were probably criminals being executed, which is somehow more palatable than that they were sacrificing innocent people to their bloodthirsty gods.
 
It's about time, considering that druidism (British and Gallic) pre-dates Christianity by several centuries.

And I don't mean this in a neo-pagan, "matriarchal mother-goddess religion", unhistorical mish-mash sense. Caesar described the druids c. 55 BCE, and so did other classical historians before him.

The modern druidic revival began in the 18th century, so it's been due for legitimate state recognition for some time.

Well, yes, but we still have no idea what religion they were actually priests of. The neo-Druids have as much (i.e. as little) connection with the originals as Wiccans do with post-medieval Catholic ritual magicians/cunning men/wise women/'healers'.

Wicca is as much a religion as Druidism, Christianity, Scientology, or Pastafarianism for that matter. Just having a certain set of beliefs and more than one person who identifies with those beliefs constitutes a religion in my opinion. Whether it carries any weight or influence outside that group is a function of how rich and powerful its members are, how appealing its set of rules and rituals, and for some reason, how long it's been around for/is successfully claimed to have been around for.
 
Well, yes, but we still have no idea what religion they were actually priests of.

We certainly have a great deal of insight into the answer. Diodorus Siculus, writing in the 1st century BCE, referred to the Druids' use of "seers", who "by their augural observances and sacrifice of... animals [could] foretell the future and... hold all the people subject to them...." (Library of History, V, 31, 2-3) Diodorus, Caesar, Strabo and Pliny tell us that prophecy and control of supernatural forces were key elements of the Druids' religious practices, and the latter two classical scribes wrote at length about the Druids' various functions as teachers, judges and royal advisers. The Coligny calendar (1st century CE), a fragmentary bronze plaque inscribed in Gaulish (a form of Celtic), provides us with a list of auspicious and inauspicious days for festivals and ceremonies.

Using these sources as a guide, along with Caesar's and other contemporary military histories, it is reasonable to conclude that most or even all religious archeological materials from pre-Roman, Bronze-Age Britain and Gaul relate to the Druids. Sacred structures, warrior burials, sacrificial deposits, regalia EG headdresses, badges of office, scepters and the like can all be linked to the Druids via logical inference, since all classical writers who refer to the Druids describe them as the sole cult officials of the region. Certain images in stone and bronze -- figures as well as carvings -- further detail and clarify the religion of the Druids.

Caesar explains the Druid's belief in reincarnation, "and they regard this as the strongest incentive to valour, since the fear of death is disregarded. They also have much knowledge of the stars and their motion, of the size of the world and the earth, of natural philosophy [meaning science], and the powers and spheres of action of the immortal gods, which they discuss and hand down to their young students."

This material taken as a whole points to a nature-based religion involving reverence for oak and mistletoe, well and stream, lightning and thunder, sun and moon -- in short, a nature religion. At least we can see by this truncated essay that the assertion "we still have no idea what religion they were actually priests of" is not supported by the great body of evidence, both documentary and material, which we possess regarding the beliefs, practices, rituals and functions of the pre-Christian Druidic religion.

The neo-Druids have as much (i.e. as little) connection with the originals as Wiccans do with post-medieval Catholic ritual magicians/cunning men/wise women/'healers'.

It is the proper skeptical position to state that 21st-century Druids have little in common with those of antiquity. However, it bears noting that Neo-Druids, as I understand them, incorporate all that we know from classical, pre-Christian sources into their traditions, and further employ motifs and rituals culled from literary sources such as the mythologies of Wales and Ireland. These were written down in the Middle Ages (~7th-13 centuries CE), but are generally regarded by scholars of the subject as deriving from much earlier oral traditions.

While it's certainly correct to state that druidism officially ended with the demise of the Irish druids in the 5th century CE, the revival of interest in these ancient practices began in the 16th century with the rediscovery of the classical authors I referenced above (Pliny ET AL.). 17th- and 18th-century antiquarians Aubrey and Stukeley reconstructed the Druid order based on these texts, and on clues found in the Irish Ulster Cycle and the myths of Wales.

Also in the 18th century, the Welsh Bard Iolo Morgannwg (ne Williams) drew connections between the Bardic tradition, which had existed historically since the early medieval period, and classical Druidism. Picking up from Aubrey and Stukeley, Morgannwg further codified this into "neo-Druidism" into a series of texts and rites; from that time to the present, other writers, poets and philosophers have contributed to and expanded the Druidic tradition.


Wicca is as much a religion as Druidism, Christianity, Scientology, or Pastafarianism for that matter. Just having a certain set of beliefs and more than one person who identifies with those beliefs constitutes a religion in my opinion. Whether it carries any weight or influence outside that group is a function of how rich and powerful its members are, how appealing its set of rules and rituals, and for some reason, how long it's been around for/is successfully claimed to have been around for.

I find no argument with the above paragraph.

It bears noting that my sources for this essay are all physical, printed books -- I derived not a word of it from any on-line source. Spence, Green, Nichols, Rutherford and Matthews have been my informants and educators in this field of study. Anyone can PM me, if they wish, to acquire a thorough bibliography of Druidic histories, writings and overviews.
 
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This article brings up an important question: How many people's superstitions do you need to take advantage of to not have to pay taxes and, more importantly, how can I get in on the action? :p
 
Regarding the tax-exempt status of Druidism [from the article linked in the OP(s)] :

In some ways, Druidry in Britain is catching up to Druids and other neo-pagans in the United States, which already provides tax-exempt status for religious groups....​

To my mind this settles a long-standing imbalance. Druidism originated or at least flourished in Britain, but it has never been recognized as an official religion there until now. Since it is based on a veneration of nature -- a veneration which can take a variety of forms, with or without a belief in actual divinities -- I for one welcome the addition of Druidism to its new official status in the country of its origin, as something of a balancing factor against, or alongside, religions which tend to eschew the primacy of nature.
 
... I think there is no evidence to sacrifice being part of their history though, more projection and specualtion and bias is cited than evidence.

As far as I can tell there is a lot of evidence of massive ox roasts being part of Druidic tradition. However there is little evidence of human sacrifices other than slanderous tales written by Christian monks trying to drive people away from the old religions.

Caesar and Strabo, both of whom lived and wrote BCE, describe fairly horrific sacrificial rituals among the Gauls. Caesar recounts rites in which humans and animals were burned to death while locked inside a giant wickerwork figure, as sacrificial gifts to the gods.

Caesar specifies that "the immortal gods delight more in the slaughter of those taken in theft or brigandage or some crime, but when the supply of that kind runs short they descend even to the sacrifice of the innocent." Persons "suffering from serious illness" made up some portion of "the innocent".

So we see that ritual human sacrifice, apart from being religious in aspect, also provided a means of publicly held capital punishment. One is given to wonder, however, how Caesar could have verified these claims, which were recounted to him by his Gaulic translator.

Strabo writes that the Druids "shoot victims to death with arrows, or impale them in the temples", after which a prediction of the future would be made according to the response of the body.

Diodorus states: "... [the Druids] devote to death a human being and plunge a dagger into him... and when the stricken victim has fallen they read the future from the manner of his fall and from the twitching of his limbs, as well as from the gushing of his blood."

Other classical writers describe different methods by which the Druids committed ritual murder: hanging, stabbing, drowning. Pliny alludes to cannibalism. Lucan and Tacitus perpetuate these accounts, though they are probably just repeating what the others have already written, and exaggerating them into still more ghastly rites. (Lucan in his Pharsalia writes of "altars heaped with hideous offerings, and every tree... sprinkled with human blood". However, this was an epic poem filled with some fairly fantastical stuff; Lucan never actually travelled to Britain or Gaul.)

It is unknown whether the cited methods of execution were employed to invoke different spirits or supernatural powers, or to appease gods of differing dominions.

From the linked article:

"While sacrifice is a core notion within most spiritual traditions, within Druidry it is confused by historical accounts of the killing of both human and animal victims," [Britain's Druid Network] said in its application to the British commission. "No such practice is deemed acceptable within modern Druidry."

"What is sacrificed within the tradition today," the application says, "is that which we value most highly in life and hold to with most passion: time, security, certainty, comfort, convenience, ignorance and the like."​
 
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Why isn't Jedi accepted as a religion?

I'm serious. In the 2001 Australian census, 70,000 identified Jedi as their religion compared with 1,000 for Druidism.
 
Why isn't Jedi accepted as a religion?

Because Jedi-ism is based on a known and admittedly fictional work of science fiction/fantasy which ascribes to its adherents supreme telekinetic and prophetic powers that are demonstrably fictive creations.

I'm serious. In the 2001 Australian census, 70,000 identified Jedi as their religion compared with 1,000 for Druidism.

Bandwagon fallacy.
 
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Why isn't Jedi accepted as a religion?

Because Jedi-ism is based on a known and admittedly fictional work of science fiction/fantasy which ascribes to its adherents supreme telekinetic and prophetic powers that are demonstrably fictive creations.
That's not an answer to the question.
 
Good.. just as planned.

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