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Drug Evolution

Dragonrock

Militant Elvisian Tacoist
Dragonrock
Joined
May 17, 2002
Messages
10,289
Location
Emmonak, Alaska
No, not the evolution of drugs, but rather evolution from drugs. Let us say that all drugs are legalized. In addition, manufacturers are given immunity from the results of misuse. So, people are able to purchase, at greatly reduced prices, any drug that they want. They can also take as much as they can afford but will only be able to blame themselves if they die. Now, I expect that in a short amount of time there would be thousands, if not millions, of dead junkies all over the country. The question is, of the people who survive, both users and non-users, what traits would they likely carry to their offspring?
 
Dragonrock said:
No, not the evolution of drugs, but rather evolution from drugs. Let us say that all drugs are legalized. In addition, manufacturers are given immunity from the results of misuse. So, people are able to purchase, at greatly reduced prices, any drug that they want. They can also take as much as they can afford but will only be able to blame themselves if they die. Now, I expect that in a short amount of time there would be thousands, if not millions, of dead junkies all over the country. The question is, of the people who survive, both users and non-users, what traits would they likely carry to their offspring?
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The only two things come to mind:

1) They would be genetically more resistant to addiction. (If there is such a thing).

2) They would be more resistant to drug-caused death.
 
KingMerv00 said:
They would be more resistant to drug-caused death.
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That's kinda what I thought. But wouldn't resistance to the higher levels of drugs also reduce the high the person would get so that they just end up using higher doses which would kill them anyway?
 
If drugs were manufactured using FDA guidelines overdosing junkies will become mostly a thing of the past except for suicides. Overall it would be a safer thing than what now exists in that a person buys drugs that may contain all kinds of things in addition to or instead of the drug they want and at unknown concentrations (which is the cause of overdoses). What you may find though is and increasing number of junkies.
 
not necessarily - the aspects of a drug that get you "high" aren't necessarily related to the physiological effects that actually kill you...

like damage to the nose from cocaine use - the nose damage isn't what gets you high - so the membranes could become more resistant to damage and you should still be able to get high from it.....

and the above poster is correct: many overdoses etc from illicit drugs occur simply because they ARE illicit - and thus vary greatly in potency, content , and effect
 
Don't the drug highs begin to fade the longer the users have taken the drugs resulting in them taking higher doses to get the same high?
 
Dragonrock said:
Don't the drug highs begin to fade the longer the users have taken the drugs resulting in them taking higher doses to get the same high?
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The main cause of drug overdosing is either a deliberate suicide attempt, or else variations in potency.

The problem -- well, a problem, but it's big enough to arguably be the problem -- with street drugs is that you don't know what you're getting. One day your connection drops a couple of grand in a poker game and he needs to make it up -- well, no problem. He'll just cut the heroin with a little more powdered sugar than usual, so he can make up twenty-five packets instead of the normal twenty. Or that may have happened to his upstream provider, so the amount of actual drug in the packets he sells you may be different than you expect without him even knowing it.

So the problem is that if you get used to taking, oh, let's say a 3% solution of heroin, and then all of a sudden, someone gives you a 10% solution of heroin, you'll be taking more than three times your normal dose without realizing it. And you're likely to die of an overdose.

Or perhaps he didn't have any sugar to use to cut it, so he used rat poison instead.

If drugs were legalized the way aspirin is, this wouldn't be a problem. Almost no one accidentally overdoses on OTC medicine, because we all know exactly how much is in each Bayer tablet.
 
Dragonrock said:
Don't the drug highs begin to fade the longer the users have taken the drugs resulting in them taking higher doses to get the same high?
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Depends entirely on the drug.

For some things this is true, weed, ecstacy, booze.

Other things, such as mushrooms, not so much.
 
Now, I expect that in a short amount of time there would be thousands, if not millions, of dead junkies all over the country.
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So the only thing that keeps most junkies alive now is the price and possibly availability of their drugs?

It's unlikely that junkie deaths would even approach tobacco deaths under your scenario. It might possibly approach the number of suicides by gambling addicts. Junkies aren't as stereotypical as you might think. Your neighbour, your Doctor or even that nice nurse at the hospital could all be junkies.

However if there is such a thing as an addictive gene and addicts of all types started dying before reproducing then I would expect it to be reduced.
 
in my experience, hallucinogenic type drugs seem to have atypical tolerances.


like if I dropped 300ug of LSD tonight, I'd be hard pressed to trip again tomorrow night - but in a week or so 300ug will do just as well as it did the first time...

I'm suspect of weed having much of a tolerance to speak off, it's probably more an issue of becoming accustomed to the effects

anyone who uses drugs casually/recreationally isn't likely to run into any major tolerance issues - being high 24/7 is not casual - a weekend user isn't going to have these problems
 
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The textbooks typically say hallucinogens and pot show little evidence of producing physical tolerance, unlike meth, for example.
 
Dragonrock said:
Don't the drug highs begin to fade the longer the users have taken the drugs resulting in them taking higher doses to get the same high?
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Don't forget drug companies would adapt by making "better" drugs or drugs that don't induce a tolerance.

I suspect the pharm. industry would evolve faster than humans would.
 
Someone told me about a sci-fi story where in the future, people need "pollution pills" to live as their daily vitamins... ie. humans had evolved to require toxins for good health.

Now as far as behavior goes- that's equally interesting. Perhaps, for example, drug users are more sociable and end up reproducing more. But maybe being too sociable gives you more diseases (STDs and such) so that you reproduce less. Or, more exposure to those viruses could also make you more immune in other ways, making you more fit against a disease.

I am certain that all of those situations have been studied at some level and are believed to manifest as a balance within the evolution of species.
 
not to mention:

a lifeform doesn't have to survive for 100 years to be successful - it only has to survive until it has successfully reproduced itself....assuming it's offspring are comparably equipped to survive....

in fact, I'd say that living past a certain point where your output to the group is exceeded by what you take from it is just plain rude and probably not good overall for the survival of the species....


so...I'm 30, I already have 3 children...if I die now from a drug overdose I fail to see how where selection kicks in - I'm already ahead of the game for # of offspring ( replaced myself and my two spouses - one who has borderline personality disorder and the other whom I consider to be borderline retarded - both of which pose a greater threat to survival than a little indulgence here and there!)
 
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I agree with the past posters who have said that the main reason for deaths directly related to drug consumption with illegal drugs is the fact they are black market drugs and thus impure and much more dangerous.
 
drkitten said:
The main cause of drug overdosing is either a deliberate suicide attempt, or else variations in potency.
.
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Isn't part of the problem that the difference with some drugs between a high and an overdose is pretty small? SO you would still get accidental overdoses with those drugs
 
rustypouch said:
For some things this is true, weed, ecstacy, booze.
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My understanding is that weed actually has a negative tolerance effect. Long-term users need lower doses for the "high."

Unusual but not unheard-of in the biochemical world.
 
drkitten said:
My understanding is that weed actually has a negative tolerance effect. Long-term users need lower doses for the "high."

Unusual but not unheard-of in the biochemical world.
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Interesting. I was speaking from personal experience. I am a casual smoker, and half a joint will normally be more than enough for me, but I know people who smoke a lot and can handle two or three.
 
Well, the effect is rather subjective....

Rather than a tolerance effect, it might be that some people enjoy a deeper level of intoxication than is comfortable for others....

take meth for an example: I enjoy a "wired" feeling while other people go to a "tweaked" level which I find uncomfortable
 
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