Draft age Americans : Fancy a holiday in Fallujah?

I believe a couple of Democratic senators have already introduced a draft bill... Rangel and someone else. Funny how it wasn;t really newsworthy until a Republican breathed the 'D' word...
 
It seems to me that the whole draft thing is simply political posturing. Armies Hate Draftees. In my Experience of the Australian Army during a draft anyone who really did not want to be there was let off overseas service. would you want someone who is not interested watching your back? Armies don't like it and I don't think Americans would accept it either.

They stayed home burning taxpayers money in a green clad job creation scheme.....


Armies don't like it and I don't think Americans would accept it either.

I believe Americans like anyone else would not support a draft unless America was genuinely in peril and then they wouldn't need one...
 
crackmonkey said:
I believe a couple of Democratic senators have already introduced a draft bill... Rangel and someone else. Funny how it wasn;t really newsworthy until a Republican breathed the 'D' word...
Click to expand...
Funny how you forgot to mention that the Democratic legislation was proposed prior to our invasion of Iraq and that this new proposal seeks to only prop up Bush's foray with fresh meat.
 
The point is that if there were a draft, opposition to the war would skyrocket. If I remember, one of the first to bring up the draft issue was Barney Frank, not a conservative at all! He felt that the fodder for war should not just be the poor kids who signed up for one weekend a month to pay for college tuition. He felt if we were going to Iraq we needed the commitment of the total nation. The point is shared responsibility. As long as rich kids can get out, then the influencial rich will continue to support George B. and his tax cuts. As long as they can drive their large SUVs they'll be happy. In fact, my neighbor pointed out we can't get out of Iraq until we start the flow of cheap gas. He feels what he is paying to fill up his new Suburban is going to the "war effort" and he wants his "pay back" in cheaper gas.
 
Virgil said:
I agree with the fool.


Virgil
Click to expand...

God help me, so do I. Of course, some senator making consequence-free remarks in a politically-charged atmosphere is clear evidence that all American males will shortly be spending their holiday in Fallujah.

Hey, Geoff, ever fancy a holiday on earth?
 
but I am suprised Hagel is supporting it. he is a bigshot Rep.

if they were a draft over Iraq, Mr. Bush should start looking for a new job.

it would be interersting to see if women get drafted too?
 
Originally posted by Jocko [/i]

>>Of course, some senator making consequence-free remarks in a politically-charged atmosphere is clear evidence that all American males will shortly be spending their holiday in Fallujah.



All American "males"??? Seems to me if the bad joke comes true the Selective Service will have to come to grips with the great strides made in the "liberation" of women since the draft was last instituted. An equal opportunity holiday in Fulujia may be the one thing that will keep the military all "volunteer" -- that is to say "volunteer" until they draft you to serve beyond your promised stay.


-- Rouser
 
Actually I think women should serve. I have female family member serving, and trust me - you can't hold a war in a Muslim country without women. Customs and traditions demand that a woman handle certain things (like that pat down search of females). Women soldiers have actually had a very beneficial effect in Afghanistan. Also, a very sad effect. Women are seeing other women in a role of authority. Actually on their own, treated as equals. On the plus side, women are getting more assertive. On the down side, many of them are setting themselves on fire. It's sort of a mini "epidemic" going on. Women that are tired of being oppressed and treated like slaves are protesting by taking cooking oil and burning themselves. The majority die slow painful deaths. But this is keeping the issue in the public eye and the demand for change is growing.

Basically though, war stinks.
 
kittynh said:
Actually I think women should serve. I have female family member serving, and trust me - you can't hold a war in a Muslim country without women. Customs and traditions demand that a woman handle certain things (like that pat down search of females). Women soldiers have actually had a very beneficial effect in Afghanistan. Also, a very sad effect. Women are seeing other women in a role of authority. Actually on their own, treated as equals. On the plus side, women are getting more assertive. On the down side, many of them are setting themselves on fire. It's sort of a mini "epidemic" going on. Women that are tired of being oppressed and treated like slaves are protesting by taking cooking oil and burning themselves. The majority die slow painful deaths. But this is keeping the issue in the public eye and the demand for change is growing.

Basically though, war stinks.
Click to expand...

F888ing christ?!? Cooking oil? IIRC, it doens't burn at a relatively high temperature... It'd be like cooking yourself to death in an oven.

Could be wrong, though. Failed chemistry. Never could understand all those carbon chains.
 
The Fool said:
It seems to me that the whole draft thing is simply political posturing. Armies Hate Draftees. In my Experience of the Australian Army during a draft anyone who really did not want to be there was let off overseas service. would you want someone who is not interested watching your back? Armies don't like it and I don't think Americans would accept it either.

They stayed home burning taxpayers money in a green clad job creation scheme.....


Armies don't like it and I don't think Americans would accept it either.

I believe Americans like anyone else would not support a draft unless America was genuinely in peril and then they wouldn't need one...
Click to expand...


Much as I hate to bust up a party where the Fool and Jocko actually agree on something :jaw: there are a couple of points I would like to make.

Professional military men prefer a Professional Army, but can and have made draftees into viable and winning forces in the past. See the US forces in WWII.

Drafts have always been needed since the era of Mass armies in the 19-20th Centuries. Volunteerism will only bring so many into the fold, but sooner or later if you are fighting a Major war, you will have to institute a draft. For example, in the American Civil War, there was a major rush to volunteer in the first year, but as the war dragged on, both sides, the South first and then the North, instituted drafts to fill the ranks. To be brutally frank, only so many men (and today, women) are willing to volunteer for a job that includes the real possibility of death or dismemberment--at some point, if you are fighting a major conflict over several years, you will have to have a draft.

The question is has the US reached that point yet. I don't think so (my opinion), but I do think the concept of "having the ability to fight two medium wars (i.e, Iraq and Korea) at the same time" that is supposedly the goal of the current US Military, has been severely stretched. If another conflict were to break out that required US military response, it would have to be Air and Naval forces for now and a draft to build up US ground forces would be a real possibility.

.....or maybe we could just hire Hessians...;) :p
 
the draftees could fill in in place of professional soldiers after the ca. 6-8 months it take to train a rifleman, led by professional officers. suppliment with the retired reserve. but in anything other than a support, or reserve role casulites would be much higher. Also, if they went to a war somewhere else they wouldn't have all the armor and first line equipment. heck there aren't enough vests to go around now.

I disagree will Hagel, draft will still make the war fought by lower classes. the smart and rich always find a way out.

Virgil
 
Virgil said:
the smart and rich always find a way out.

Virgil
Click to expand...

Yeah. If the UK tried to draft me then all I would have to do would be explain some of my political views and that would be the end of that. What would be the point in sending someone to fight in Iraq if they consider the US to be the enemy?
 
kittynh said:
In fact, my neighbor pointed out we can't get out of Iraq until we start the flow of cheap gas. He feels what he is paying to fill up his new Suburban is going to the "war effort" and he wants his "pay back" in cheaper gas.
Click to expand...

Can I nominate this fellow to be the first to be drafted?
 
JustGeoff said:

Question to US JREFers of draft age : What would be your reaction to being drafted?
Click to expand...


"Oh, Canada, our home and native land...."

Seriously, though, I *tend* to agree with Fool that much of this is just posturing. However, Vietnam showed us that yes, a draft is entirely possible when the country isn't in danger.

I wouldn't rule the possibility out, but it's too early in the game. Give it a year or two before they *seriously* start discussing it. Once June 30 has come and gone and people wise up to the fact that the US isn't leaving Iraq anytime soon, watch enlistments start to drop over the next year or so as more people die...

Yeah, I wouldn't rule it out.

(Disclaimer: The above applies no matter who wins in November.)
 
So the US government attacked and invaded a nation that was no threat on false pretences and, without planning for the aftermath, it's all going horribly wrong and now they want to reinstitute military slavery and send America's kids to kill or be killed to "fix" it? That's a vote-winner.

If they did bring back the draft, I think they'll find more than a few American kids are more than happy to shoot and blow up American politicians and generals to defend freedom of their own.
 
kittynh said:
On the down side, many of them are setting themselves on fire. It's sort of a mini "epidemic" going on. Women that are tired of being oppressed and treated like slaves are protesting by taking cooking oil and burning themselves.
Click to expand...

Even sadder than you imagine.. I saw a document on the telly about a sort of a safe house for women in Afganistan and from what I recall the women were not burning themselves. From what I gathered the burning with cooking oil is some sort of a punishment for disobedient wives.

/edited a few typos
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom