Dover and the US Constitution

[Shaun from Scotland]

Over at the BBC website at http://newsforums.bbc.co.uk/nol/thr...art=0&edition=1&ttl=20051222142750&#paginator there is an interesting little debate about this Intelligent Design nonsense in Dover. A lot of US posters are bringing up the point about the separation of Church and State in the Constitution. One US poster however has thrown this point into the mix:

"One issue that is being misundertood by a majority of the people is the issue of jurisdiction. Amendment 1 of the Constitution states that "CONGRESS" shall make no law... The US Congress cannot make a law favoring one religious establishment...for the whole US. This law was passed by a local government. We live in a democratic republic, in which, any local body can by majority, create a law. And unless that law is contradicted by state or federal gov't, it is legal."

Now Im no expert on the US Constitution, and you people are way more interesting than boring google articles so.........

Is he talking mince or not?

 

[drkitten]

"One issue that is being misundertood by a majority of the people is the issue of jurisdiction. Amendment 1 of the Constitution states that "CONGRESS" shall make no law... The US Congress cannot make a law favoring one religious establishment...for the whole US. This law was passed by a local government. We live in a democratic republic, in which, any local body can by majority, create a law. And unless that law is contradicted by state or federal gov't, it is legal."

Is he talking mince or not?

He's talking mince. More accurately, his reading would have been correct prior to the US Civil War, but a series of amendments to the Constitution were passed during the aftermath of that war (outlawing slavery, for example). One of the amendments made the Constitutional prohibitions binding on state, county, local, and so forth governments as well.

 

[Yjacket]

"One issue that is being misundertood by a majority of the people is the issue of jurisdiction. Amendment 1 of the Constitution states that "CONGRESS" shall make no law... The US Congress cannot make a law favoring one religious establishment...for the whole US. This law was passed by a local government. We live in a democratic republic, in which, any local body can by majority, create a law. And unless that law is contradicted by state or federal gov't, it is legal."

Is he talking mince or not?

He is talking mince. But a minor point of interest. Amendment I did indeed specify "Congress" shall make no law etc. That left the door wide open for State and local infraction such as censorship and imposing religious belief. Amendment XIV corrects that little problem of wording.

 

[Chris O.]

Part One of the 14th Amendment to the Constitution:

1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

Emphasis mine.

Freedom of religion is protected against state laws as well

 

[Shaun from Scotland]

Part One of the 14th Amendment to the Constitution:


Emphasis mine.

Freedom of religion is protected against state laws as well

Ok, but how does this apply to a local law? My understanding is that Dover is passing a local law and not a state law. Is this covered by the above?

 

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Ok, but how does this apply to a local law? My understanding is that Dover is passing a local law and not a state law. Is this covered by the above?

My guess would be that somewhere in the Constitution for the State of Pennsylvania, there is similar wording that says local governments may not do anything that is counter to the State constitution.

 

[drkitten]

Ok, but how does this apply to a local law? My understanding is that Dover is passing a local law and not a state law. Is this covered by the above?

Cities, counties, and similar units are technically agents of the state; they have the authority to pass laws at all only because they've been delegated authority by the state.

The state cannot delegate authority it doesn't have, so yes, it's covered.

 

[Chris O.]

Cities, counties, and similar units are technically agents of the state; they have the authority to pass laws at all only because they've been delegated authority by the state.

The state cannot delegate authority it doesn't have, so yes, it's covered.

What drkitten said

EDIt: I realised I don't know drkitten's gender

 

[Yjacket]

Ok, but how does this apply to a local law? My understanding is that Dover is passing a local law and not a state law. Is this covered by the above?

Actually I do believe that it was a local school board demanding that an item of religious philosophy be taught as science that got the board recalled. The local residents, at least the majority, were not having any of that.

As to your question Shaun - It is a pecking order thing. The states may not conflict with the US Constitution and the County may not conflict with the State or Feds and so forth. Pecking order with the US Constitution at the apex of the pyramid.