Split Thread Does this qualify as paranormal for the challenge?

VERGIS92

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Does this phenomenon qualify as paranormal for the preliminary $10,000 prize?

The phenomenon can only be contacted upon arrangement with a religious high ranking monk, I have not talked to him, but he may well accept, I first investigated this phenomenon in 1993 in that same place, the very monk was there.


it's as follows:

The monk prepares himself, reads a long prayer, about 1 hour long, and he has a small golden artifact, a golden cross of about 15cm long, when the prayer is done the artifact becomes 'magnetic on demand' and seems to detect areas of suffering on a subject's body, it behaves like a pieces of gold on all healthy spots, but if you place it on say one's forehead, if he suffers from severe migraines the artifact sticks on the forehead with enormous force, for about 20 secs.

I investigated the artifact on 2 subjects, and myself, for 30 mins, without letting the monk near it. The force seems to be proportional to the suggested suffering, amazingly accurate in detecting suffering, and the attraction force reaches unimaginable levels, for the first 20 secs or so, impossible to remove the artifact during those, then it comes down, and feels like a magnet on a fridge.


This completely bends the rules of physics, so the claim is:

1) Proof that prayer can activate the artifact, and that prayer works
2) We can identify spots of suffering, chronic suffering, on the body
3) A mystery, on demand attraction force is produced to indicate the spots.

when tested in 1993, there was no healing, and no religious subjects are required


I'm only going to do once in the near future, and maybe much later, James Randi award is really only $10,000, (preliminary test) if he loses, I imagine that he will
immediately accept the $1m final, but he will also hedge by betting a larger amount with a third party.

Does this qualify for the challenge? if not, I am thinking of custom bet bookmakers, such as William Hill in London, he's know to take bets on supernatural claims, such as
anything that bends the laws of physics as we know it
 
Might be hard to blind a test of identifying parts of the body in pain, but a powerful force of attraction between the artefact and injuries would be fairly easy to measure, so long as it doesn't need to be hand-held. I think the miraculous 'magnetism' claim could qualify.

By the way, I'm not clear whose "preliminary $10,000 prize" you're referring to. The JREF prize is a single $1million.
 
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First issue I see is that 'suffering' can be subjective. Can it find disease?
 
Another thing that comes to mind is that if the object is sticking to the person, we may be looking at another "magnetic children" situation. What we may have here is a slightly damp and clammy monk.
 
VERGIS92 said:
Does this phenomenon qualify as paranormal for the preliminary $10,000 prize?
Click to expand...
There is no preliminary prize.
There are a number of other challenges that have smaller cash values. It may be a good idea to see if there is one in your vicinity. Setting up a test will be much easier and take less travel costs. Besides, these less famous challenges may have more time for less famous claimants.

The monk prepares himself, reads a long prayer, about 1 hour long, and he has a small golden artifact, a golden cross of about 15cm long, when the prayer is done the artifact becomes 'magnetic on demand' and seems to detect areas of suffering on a subject's body, it behaves like a pieces of gold on all healthy spots, but if you place it on say one's forehead, if he suffers from severe migraines the artifact sticks on the forehead with enormous force, for about 20 secs.

I investigated the artifact on 2 subjects, and myself, for 30 mins, without letting the monk near it. The force seems to be proportional to the suggested suffering, amazingly accurate in detecting suffering, and the attraction force reaches unimaginable levels, for the first 20 secs or so, impossible to remove the artifact during those, then it comes down, and feels like a magnet on a fridge.
Click to expand...
My advice is to focus on the mysterious force, as forces can be easily objectively measured.
Is it necessary for anyone to hold the artifact?
Does it work through cloth, paper, etc?
What's its range? How close does it need to be to the sufferer before the force is noticeable?
Does the sufferer need to be in acute pain? Does the artifact react to pain or to any underlying ailments?
 
VERGIS92 said:
Does this qualify for the challenge?
Click to expand...
It seems to be a paranormal claim for which a suitable test protocol could be developed and agreed, assuming the monk agrees.

The JREF challenge consists of two tests, a preliminary and a final test. The million dollars (the money is already sitting the bank) will be paid if both tests are passed; there is no prize for passing the preliminary test.

The details of what claims qualify, how to apply etc are given here:

http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/1m-challenge.html
 
the attraction field goes through one's clothes, it seems to be proportional to the pain, the subjects tested were not in pain in that very time, (migraines, and vain disease one one's leg) it stack on the forehead and leg respectively, first left alone, then tried to remove it with my hands, it was impossible to to do so for about half a minute, then it came down feeling like a magnet on a fridge, and I could overpower it, it also stack on my own chest later with less power, but still very noticeable, I asked what's wrong with me? he said it's just stress.

this can be reproduced on any subject, atheist, muslim etc, we didn't go there in faith, and no claims of healing were made, but the attraction field still puzzles me to this day.

the monks only claim is that these artifacts contain actual material wood, deep inside the gold, wood from the original cross of Jesus, there's several such artifacts spread all over the place, they all have legends and stories, but his one I lived and investigated myself, together with 4 others, 19 years ago
 
VERGIS92 said:
the attraction field goes through one's clothes, it seems to be proportional to the pain, the subjects tested were not in pain in that very time, (migraines, and vain disease one one's leg) it stack on the forehead and leg respectively, first left alone, then tried to remove it with my hands, it was impossible to to do so for about half a minute, then it came down feeling like a magnet on a fridge, and I could overpower it, it also stack on my own chest later with less power, but still very noticeable...
Click to expand...

Just for clarity - you say the object stuck to someone and for half a minute you were not able to pull it away from them, with nobody else touching the object? Is that right? The priest actually let go, the object remained stuck, and you could not pull it away?

I reckon you could win a million dollars with that, and start a new branch of physics to boot. All that remains to be done is to measure the mystical force.
 
There's nothing worse than a vain disease. It's all "look at me, I'm a disease." I prefer more modest ailments.
 
It would definitely count but I'm not sure you could get the monk to agree to the testing. If you could convince him that would really count as a miracle.
 
rjh01 said:
Be ready for disappointment. The monk will refuse to take the test.
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Very likely, but I'm still curious.

How did the OP learn about this monk? Where is he? Have other people who've experienced the phenomenon written about it elsewhere? It seems quite remarkable, so I would be surprised if they hadn't. Perhaps VERGIS92 can share some of those reports with additional details as a starting point in getting the monk his million.

Oh, yes--and as has been stated, there is no "preliminary $10,000 prize"--it's a cool million from the JREF, though it may be smart to go after some of the other smaller prizes first, to gain credibility before going for the big one.
 
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AdMan said:
Oh, yes--and as has been stated, there is no "preliminary $10,000 prize"--it's a cool million from the JREF, though it may be smart to go after some of the other smaller prizes first, to gain credibility before going for the big one.
Click to expand...
However, success in one of the smaller prizes, such as the Australian Skeptics $10,000 Prize, will be considered a successful preliminary test for the JREF Million.
 
arthwollipot said:
However, success in one of the smaller prizes, such as the Australian Skeptics $10,000 Prize, will be considered a successful preliminary test for the JREF Million.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure about that. Winning one of the other prizes would certainly get the applicant all the press and academic notice that's required for the MDC, but I'm not sure that there are any tests that currently qualify as a JREF prelim. I could be wrong.

Ward
 
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