Does the universe know what it is doing?

[Iamme]

I realize there have been a lot of threads dealing with God...the universe...how it came into being, etc. But the specific question I ask begs an answer.

Science wants us to believe that it just came into being of it's own accord. Apparently it all is, just because it is. But look around you.

Does this look like just random chance to you? Do you suppose this all just happened without a plan? What do you call all this....luck?

Or, are our brains incapable of fathoming billions, perhaps trillions, of years of random workings manipulating itself so that every once in a while in some point in space and time, that it's possible for the apparent workings of a machine to emerge?

Is it possible that rather than a God creating the universe...some chaotic universe hit on some combinations whereby IT created lucky conditions which then created God(s) [us]?

Which came first: the queen bee or the hive? (I was actually pondering whether to name the thread this) Could the hive (universe) occured without the queen bee? (God)?

When you read scientific articles, you are led to believe that man is following some destiny, and/ or creating a pretty spectacular one himself, as he goes. We are achieving greater things, exponentially with time. We may even discover immortality, in the end. Is all this happening without a supreme plan from the start? No queen bee?

 

[Paul C. Anagnostopoulos]

Of course it doesn't look like random chance to us, because we think we're the greatest thing since sliced pajamas. So do the slime beasts from the planet Yarg over there in that other galaxy. We're so cool, it just couldn't be the case that we're a lucky accident. There has got to be a purpose for our existence. And if we can't figure out what it is, I'm just gonna stomp my foot and holler at the sky.

~~ Paul

 

[LFTKBS]

Does the universe know what it is doing?

Short answer: no.

Long answer: no. Iamme, I posted a thread in Flame Wars a while ago saying that you (Iamme) are dumb,and then you came there and defended yourself reasonably well, saying that were curious and willing to learn and that liked to learn new things, et cetera, etc. Then you post this . . . monstrosity and I'm all torn up again in re: sympathizing with you v. just wanting to hit you with a textbook.

"Science wants us to believe that it just came into being of it's own accord."

Well, no, it doesn't, because science can't want anything. Science is not an entity, but a way of determining the way the universe operates.

(1, 2, 3 respectively) "Does this look like just random chance to you? Do you suppose this all just happened without a plan? What do you call all this....luck?"

1) Yes. 2) Yes. 3) I don't know what I call it. It is a sad and grim world that cares nothing for the creatures in it, where men and women are born, suffer, and then die. It seems to me quite an unlucky place indeed.

"When you read scientific articles, you are led to believe that man is following some destiny"

Stop reading USA Today.

"No queen bee?"

None at all.

 

[Yahweh]

I realize there have been a lot of threads dealing with God...the universe...how it came into being, etc. But the specific question I ask begs an answer.

Science wants us to believe that it just came into being of it's own accord.

"At its own accord" sounds too much like "the universe is alive, and knows its alive", that's simply not true.

Apparently it all is, just because it is. But look around you.

Does this look like just random chance to you? Do you suppose this all just happened without a plan? What do you call all this....luck?

Or, are our brains incapable of fathoming billions, perhaps trillions, of years of random workings manipulating itself so that every once in a while in some point in space and time, that it's possible for the apparent workings of a machine to emerge?

Is it possible that rather than a God creating the universe...some chaotic universe hit on some combinations whereby IT created lucky conditions which then created God(s) [us]?

There is really no substance in the "the universe appears so complex it must be designed" argument (or Argument from Design)

Well, if you believe God created the universe, who created God? And who created God's creator? And who... the circles never end.

Hey, if the universe is so incredibly complex that it couldnt have come about on its own, then how immeasurably unlikely is it that a creator of a complex universe with complex sentient lifeforms is going to come about?

Its also a flaw to believe that everything in the universe is a product of mere chance. You have to remember, chance isnt much of an important factor in the origins of the universe, physics are whats important. And because humans and other animals have free-will (or minimally, they respond to stimuli in the environment), "chance" (in terms of randominity) then loses virtually all influence on the coarse of events to precede.

 

[peptoabysmal]

Personally, I don't believe it is random. That is, there is a natural way that things fit together.

My belief does not include a god who is in control, either. Chaos theory has done quite a bit towards proving that events are not completely random and true randomness is hard to achieve. Why would non-randomness imply a being in "control" of it all?

It may not be that life was created out of pure randomness, but that life is just a natural progression of the natural states of matter.

When you drop an apple and it falls to the ground, you accept this as a "law of nature", that is, it is just the way things work. Why couldn't life itself be just as natural?

 

[Dorian Gray]

It looks like you are implying that the universe sprang out of nothing, randomly, and then somehow a god sprang out of that, randomly. Is that what you were saying?

 

[athon]

Two fish were swimming through the ocean, contemplating how perfect the world had to be just to have them be able to swim in it. The water temperature, salinity, pH...the list is endless.

The question is, if you changed one of those things, would the fish be there to contemplate it? So by combination of the details, the fish could be there to appreciate it. They aren't in the desert, or the polar ice, or in the trees...or any other place they cannot exist.

Are there other 'universes' where the rules aren't so suitable? IMHO, I'd like to think so. It makes sense, in spite of having to real evidence to base this thought on. Hence it is pure speculation, even faith-based, but not science.

Athon

 

[Michael Redman]

If this were the best of all possible worlds, I might be somewhat inclined to think that it was designed for me. However, anyone who can look at our reality and think that a benevolent creator made this universe for us is really operating with blinders on.

Now, I'm pretty happy with my life, but not everything is perfect. I'm wearing glasses. It's cold! Snow is beautiful, but how about snow at 50 degrees, not 32, and make the absolute minimun temp on the sruface something like 40? I had to walk through cold snow and slush to get to work. I have to work. I'm going to die before I get to see all the places I want to see, largely because I have to work. (If I ever design a universe, people are not going to have to work to eat, and no one starves to death.)

I love food and hate to exercise. The universe makes me this way, and yet it punishes me for it. What's that about?

We're stuck to the land surface of this planet. Sure, you can get some elevation, but fall only 20 or 30 feet, and you're likely to die. Go too high, and you can't breath. In fact, all the breathable air we know of in the entire universe is at the surface of Earth, or within a couple of miles of the surface. And 70% of our plant is covered with water. Try breathing that stuff! This plant was designed for us? The poles freeze you, and the middle burns you. The Sun is the necessary energy giver for our lives, and yet it's beneficial rays destroy our skin. Nice design.

Sexually transmitted disease? Are you kidding me?

Yes, we're really lucky to have the universe just as it is.

 

[Cynical]

Hey, Phelps is that you? Iamme? Is it you, Phelps?

Damn, if it is, you sound like a different person over here!

 

[Iamme]

Hi Cynical! Is it really you ? *THE* Cynical? Trying to blow my cover? There is a Reverend by that Phelps name who is about to be tarred and feathered in this forum, don'tcha know?

Cynical---One is bound to sound different in a forum where you are debating so many 'experts' in fields such as science, math, medicine, art, literature, religion, philosophy, history, political events, etc. It's far easier discussing people who ask who has an "M" sound in their name? Such people are really not much to *crow* about.

 

[Frostbite]

It is random. I think the only difference between inanimate objects and living objects is that the living ones will do anything to survive, consciously and subconsciously. The reason everything around you exists - your computer, your building, your city, etc. - is because we human beings have been evolving in the context of always improving on earlier concepts and learning from our mistakes. Everything could disappear in minutes if a 10km wide meteor came crashing on us, and it would just be another speck of dust that got wiped out in this cosmic chaos we call the universe.

Another cool idea is that the universe is intelligent in the way that it evolves through its living organisms. In other words, if we were to make contact with an alien race, we'd either wipe em out, get wiped out, exchange some technology, or whatever. The end result is a web of relationships between cultures that could have an impact on the universe itself, through manipulating the trajectories of stars, planets and other things. Much the same way neurones exchange information within our brains, entire civilizations would do the same on an insanely large scale, and it would take thousands of years to make a decision. Call it a cosmic Gaia of some sorts.

 

[Frostbite]

We're stuck to the land surface of this planet. Sure, you can get some elevation, but fall only 20 or 30 feet, and you're likely to die. Go too high, and you can't breath. In fact, all the breathable air we know of in the entire universe is at the surface of Earth, or within a couple of miles of the surface. And 70% of our plant is covered with water. Try breathing that stuff! This plant was designed for us? The poles freeze you, and the middle burns you. The Sun is the necessary energy giver for our lives, and yet it's beneficial rays destroy our skin. Nice design.

So, basically, we're like mold. Smart mold.