Does faith stifle freedom?

[PygmyPlaidGiraffe]

Will faith in Jesus set me free or will it stifle me? What will faith set me free from? What are the criteria used to determine freedom?

Christians will tell me Faith in Christ will set people free from their ignorance, from disease, and political subjugation.

I think, "Wow, that is quite a claim."

They continue on with: People will be set free from their selfishness or poverty or from a repressive regime.
I say "How?" and the response I get is:

Can man bear to live without God? The world is heading to destruction without God. We need absolute values.

At this point I am lost. I can't seem to grasp anything at this point. My mind is trying to find cohesion between these seemingly unconnected thoughts, but I fail.

Then they tell me that freedom must be more than choosing a code of conduct. It has to do with the kind of people we are. Jesus Christ is the most liberated man that has ever lived. There are devinely appointed standards of ethics, and Jesus followed them in his life. Can any one say that His faith stifled his freedom?

I am thinking: I suspect yes there are people who can say that.

Jesus was free, free, free
People who believe in him are free, free, free.

Accept him so you will be free, free, free.

I am stupefied. I am sticken speachless. I walk away and remain unfree.

Is it futile to even begin to debate with people that talk like this?

 

[Yahzi]

Is it futile to even begin to debate with people that talk like this?

Yes.

 

[MRC_Hans]

Yes, I think it is futile do debate such people. Like all Believers, they are beyond argumentation.

However, they may be speaking the truth. If they used to be burdened with fear, with lack of self-confidence, if they used to feel fenced in by (possibly imagined) powers uut of their control, then, yes, it is entirely possible that religion has set them free.

This does not mean that you can expect it to set YOU free, though. I'm willing to wager that religion has made at least as many people unfree as free.

Hans

 

[Lord Emsworth]

It is pretty much an eye of the beholder problem, because I think that there are two kinds of freedom.

- You can be free to do sth.

- Or, you can be free from doing sth.

A religious person is not free to decide, for example, what to eat or when to work. But they are free from deciding what to eat and when to work.

Is it futile to even begin to debate with people that talk like this?

So, yes it is futile, because they are right. They are probably even free from taking your viewpoints into consideration.

 

[triadboy]

Is it futile to even begin to debate with people that talk like this?

People who believe in Jesus are also burdened with the OT. The mythical story of the dying god-man is wonderful - it's been told before. Lots of people - in different lands - before and after Jesus have loved this tale. [It is an archetypal image deep within our psyche]

But unfortunately for xians - the Jesus myth is required to be believed as history - dragging the wretched OT along with it. This is where most xians eyes are finally opened.

Once you bring up talking snakes, Adam and Eve, Tower of Babel, Noahs Ark, talking donkeys, the sun standing still, people living inside whales, etc. - xians squirm a little, because as we proceed into history - these ancient fartin-around-the-campfire tales are becoming more and more ridiculous to xians! More and more, xians are (almost) disavowing the OT as mostly stories.

But they shouldn't be allowed to get away with this! The OT is the foundation of the NT. They should answer to it.

One of my favorite debate techniques is to get 2 xians in a room and debate them at the same time. Since they can't agree on what they believe together - they end of debating each other, while I sip my coffee and giggle. (It's especially fun if you get a young earther and an old earther - the talk will end with the young earther damning the old earther to hell. Then you say to the old earther, "Well, at least we'll be in hell together" and he screams and runs from the room. Then you brush your hands off and say, "I've done all I can do here")

 

[PygmyPlaidGiraffe]

Re: Re: Does faith stifle freedom?

One of my favorite debate techniques is to get 2 xians in a room and debate them at the same time. Since they can't agree on what they believe together - they end of debating each other, while I sip my coffee and giggle. (It's especially fun if you get a young earther and an old earther - the talk will end with the young earther damning the old earther to hell. Then you say to the old earther, "Well, at least we'll be in hell together" and he screams and runs from the room. Then you brush your hands off and say, "I've done all I can do here")

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