Do you believe in mental causation?

[Interesting Ian]

By mental causation I mean that our intentions/desires etc are actually causally efficacious in themselves and bring about appropriate behaviour.

 

[Z]

Does the term 'causally efficacious' imply that they are, themselves, acausal?

 

[Iacchus]

By mental causation I mean that our intentions/desires etc are actually causally efficacious in themselves and bring about appropriate behaviour.

Unless of course you're willing to insist that the Devil made you do it!

 

[Z]

Based on the other thread, I have to assume Ian is talking about a non-initiated, non-mechanistic, immaterial thing affecting other things without process or mechanism.

In other words, no.

 

[Stimpson J. Cat]

By mental causation I mean that our intentions/desires etc are actually causally efficacious in themselves and bring about appropriate behaviour.

So hang on. Now your defining it in terms of intentions and desires? If so, then obviously it is causally efficacious, since intentions and desires are simply brain states.


Dr. Stupid

 

[H'ethetheth]

Yes, your holyness, I do.

 

[Iacchus]

Based on the other thread, I have to assume Ian is talking about a non-initiated, non-mechanistic, immaterial thing affecting other things without process or mechanism.

In other words, no.

If so, then I have no problem accepting what Ian is saying. You can't have a ship without a captain at its helm.

 

[Yahweh]

What is "causally efficacious"?

 

[davidsmith73]

So hang on. Now your defining it in terms of intentions and desires? If so, then obviously it is causally efficacious, since intentions and desires are simply brain states.


Dr. Stupid

I voted "I don't know" for this very reason. It depends on ones definition of intentions and desires, which I'm undecided whether they are brain states.

 

[Interesting Ian]

So hang on. Now your defining it in terms of intentions and desires? If so, then obviously it is causally efficacious, since intentions and desires are simply brain states.


Dr. Stupid

Stimpson. Try to get it through your head. I am not interested in your metaphysical nonsensical beliefs!.

I simply wish to know whether people believe in mental causation or not. Youy say yes. OK, that's fine.

 

[Interesting Ian]

I voted "I don't know" for this very reason. It depends on ones definition of intentions and desires, which I'm undecided whether they are brain states.

I have no idea what it means to say they are brain states. Even if they were identical we then we have the problem of deciding whether it means the mental is reducible to the physical, or the physical reducible to the mental.

 

[Iacchus]

Hey, I have no problem accepting that the physical world exists. However, it seems like there has to be some other agent which coexists with and animates the whole thing. Otherwise what's the point? It then becomes a whole pointless exercise in the articulation of nothing. If there was nothing there in the first place, why should there be the need to articulate anything at all?

 

[Interesting Ian]

Based on the other thread, I have to assume Ian is talking about a non-initiated, non-mechanistic, immaterial thing affecting other things without process or mechanism.

In other words, no.

I am making no assumptions about the origin of mental causation, I simply want to know if people believe it exists.

Thus why do I drink a glass of pineapple squash? I might be very thirsty. But that doesn't make me drink, even though the fact that I will get a drink might be 100% predictable. Thus if I'm incredibly thirsty this will have such a huge influence on my behaviour that I am bound to get a drink (although this need not be the only scenario where my behaviour could in principle be 100% predictable). But the thirstiness in itself does not compel me to drink. It's my decision which does that. Nor does the thirstiness compel my decision, although it may render my decision as 100% predictable.

So that's what I'm asking.

 

[jmercer]

Stimpson. Try to get it through your head. I am not interested in your metaphysical nonsensical beliefs!.

I simply wish to know whether people believe in mental causation or not. Youy say yes. OK, that's fine.

What the hell is "metaphysical" about a brain state? It's freakin' measureable and mappable, Ian... scientific studies of this have been going on for decades now. They've even mapped brain states and brain activity during prayer, meditation, etc.

Now, regarding your question - yes, with reservations that what I think is encompassed by mental causation may be different than what you think.

 

[Interesting Ian]

What the hell is "metaphysical" about a brain state?

Nothing.

I rather think your post should have been addressed to Stimpson. It is not me who is saying that mental events and brain processes are numerically identical.

 

[jmercer]

Nothing.

I rather think your post should have been addressed to Stimpson. It is not me who is saying that mental events and brain processes are numerically identical.

Wait a second... I'm confused. You're the one in the quote talking about metaphysical brain states, aren't you?

 

[Interesting Ian]

Wait a second... I'm confused. You're the one in the quote talking about metaphysical brain states, aren't you?

That's ok

Care to justify your metaphysical nonsense Stimpson?

 

[Interesting Ian]

Huh?? You must have changed your post in the second before I clicked reply!

 

[Interesting Ian]

Wait a second... I'm confused. You're the one in the quote talking about metaphysical brain states, aren't you?

What's a metaphysical brain state when it's all at home?

Stating that mental states are one and the same thing as brain states goes beyond any empirical data. At the very most we only have correlations (and even that's questionable). Again, at most, correlations between 2 apparent existents suggests a causal relationship. To say they are identical goes beyond any possible empirical evidence. It is stating something which cannot in principle be justified by science. It is a metaphysical stance.

 

[dann]

Are we able to make up our minds, to make decisions?
Yes.
Do we use our brains to do so?
Yes.
Do our brains make our decions for us?
No. We also use our legs to go from point A to point B. The activity of our legs doesn't mean that they decide to go anywhere ...