Division in Israel over withdrawal from settlements

[a_unique_person]

It has been predicted here that the inevitable time when Israel has to decide just what it will call it's borders will create a big internal division. Capel has said it will create a civil war.

this article pretty well sums up the division of the secular vs the extremist religious groups.

Who will win out? At present, the contortions that Sharon has had to go to to even maintain a parliamentery majority, and the fragility of the one he has created, seem to indicate that no one can predict the outcome.

As with the Palestinian elections that are about to happen, both sides are about to enter a whole new phase in the ongoing saga.

An indication of the outlook of the extremists is summed up with this quote.

Ben Shohat, who grew up in the Ramot neighborhood in Jerusalem, came to Yitzhar "because here they live the ideals. Here people are closer to the truth and to the Holy One, blessed be he, than in other places."

What truth?

Ben Shohat: "Judaism, which is endangering your democracy."

Is there no Judaism outside of Yitzhar?

"Of course there is, but here the commitment is many times greater, and also there is no inhibition about touching the points of friction today - settling the land and war on the enemy."

Ben Shohat's attitude toward the state is complex. The dispute is between a Jewish state and a state of Israelis; between a Jewish state and a democratic state. "Together - it isn't going to work! Judaism is unequivocally contradictory to democracy, and the laws of the Torah take precedence over the laws of the state. Whom will I obey? My Creator or a commander who might be a year or two older than me?"

A lot of Israelis would disagree with that sentiment, but until now, a united front against the Palestinians and Arabs has allowed Israelis to ignore these divisions.

Which side will win out? It could all be a load of bluster and Sharon will win out quickly. The revolt within the armed forces could grow, or die out rapidly.

I think that the good that may come out of this is that Israel will be forced to finally confront it's contradictions, and make a rational choice for all parties. That rational outcome, however, will not be the one that Sharon or Likud wanted. A lot of the conservatives are wide awake to the possibility of this slippery slope, however. At least this time, there won't be Sharon waiting to capitalise on the assasination of the PM.

The cynical side of me, however, sees that outcome as just being a confirmation of the hold that the extremists have over the majority.

I don't know if anyone else here has any predictions of how this will pan out.

* One thing I like about this newspaper is the long articles, the idea that someone might like to read a lot about an important issue seems to be disappearing in the local newspapers.

 

[LucyR]

Did you intend to post this here?

 

[a_unique_person]

no

 

[LucyR]

oh

 

[davefoc]

I don't have anything to say about the topic but I was interested in it. Perhaps the thread could get moved to the politics section where there might be more posts.

Whoops, I guess, I do have something to say, I just didn't realize it.

Internal Israeli politics are interesting. I have seen opinion polls that suggest that the majority of Israelis have not supported the post 1967 expansion and I have seen opinion polls that suggest the opposite. Whatever the actual numbers it seems there is a much wider range of opinion amongst the Israeli population than the US media distillation of the situation would suggest.

One thought that I have had for quite a while is that US aid works to skew Israeli public opinion towards more aggresive colonization practices. People like money and Israel gets more US aid as long as it can maintain the state of semi-war that has existed for so long. And one way of maintaining the state of semi-war is to continue to build settlements.

But I think almost whoever is in power the actual expansion of Israeli territory has ended. New settlements are being built in areas already controlled by the Israelis and the wall (albeit on Palestinian territory) seems to set some limits on what post 1967 borders Israel is interested in defending. So whether there is peace or not, whether the few Israelis are removed from the Gaza strip or not Israeli territorial expansion is ending. I wonder if this reality has been accepted by the elements in Israel that have successfully pushed for Israeli territorial expansion all these years.

Capel Dodger has said that in the long term he thinks the Israelis and the Palestinians will form a unified state. Maybe, who thought the whites in South Africa would ever give up power volutarily to the black majority? Right now that idea seems wildly unlikely to me, but I have been wrong so many times in my life that one more time doesn't seem completely implausible.