Did Jon-Benet Ramsay's brother kill her?

[Bob001]

CBS has just concluded a four-hour, two-night documentary in which expert investigators, including forensic examiner Henry Lee, reviewed all of the original reports and as much other material as they could get about the Jon-Benet Ramsay murder, and talked to numerous participants, including police officers and a grand juror. They concluded that her 10-year-old brother Burke smacked his sister with a Maglite -- he had previously hit her with a golf club -- hard enough to kill her, intentionally or accidentally. Then parents John and Patsy set about furiously staging the scene and drafting a bogus ransom note to try save their son. Apparently the grand jury voted to indict the parents for the cover-up, but the prosecutor refused. Their conclusions are compelling. Thoughts?
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/jonbenet-killed-older-brother-cbs-experts-article-1.2799713
http://www.rollingstone.com/culture...t-ramsey-everything-we-learned-so-far-w440647
http://www.rollingstone.com/culture/news/the-case-of-jonbenet-ramsey-everything-we-learned-w440951
http://www.cbs.com/shows/the-case-o...83AF1D780/the-case-of-jonbenet-ramsey-part-1/
http://www.cbs.com/shows/the-case-o...ouD2558io/the-case-of-jonbenet-ramsey-part-2/

 

[BStrong]

I watched part one, will watch part two when possible.

Ugly crime, plausible explanation.

 

[KatieG]

4 people walked into that house, only 3 people woke up the next morning. No evidence of an intruder. John, Patsy or Burke had to be responsible. The actions of the parents screamed guilt to my LE buddies.

I always thought it was an inside job. Burke and Jon-Benet were playing and somehow he hit her. Patsy wrote the note, John handled most of the cover up. Burke was never told that he killed her, hence the ridiculous kidnapping story.

None of that explains how she got the older scars from signs of previous molestation.

 

[bagels]

4 people walked into that house, only 3 people woke up the next morning. No evidence of an intruder. John, Patsy or Burke had to be responsible. The actions of the parents screamed guilt to my LE buddies.

I always thought it was an inside job. Burke and Jon-Benet were playing and somehow he hit her. Patsy wrote the note, John handled most of the cover up. Burke was never told that he killed her, hence the ridiculous kidnapping story.

None of that explains how she got the older scars from signs of previous molestation.

This blogger proposes a theory of the crime where John Ramsey killed his daughter to cover up prior sexual abuse, and was in the process of staging the kidnapping when his wife inadvertently found his ransom note too soon and called the police without asking him, setting things in motion before he could finish his plan. His plan in this case would have been to use the fake ransom note as an excuse to leave the house that morning for the ransom exchange when in reality he would be taking the body for disposal.

It also explains the bizarre broken window in the basement which John claims was broken months prior to the crime and he just never got around to fixing it - with that being a quickly improvised excuse for his half finished staging.

Plausible I suppose but I don't see how he could have fooled the police without an incoming call in his records from the kidnappers.

I don't really know what happened, it seems multiple theories are plausible. I wouldn't even rule out an intruder. Doesn't look like it will be solved any time soon.

 

[bytewizard]

I watched the whole thing. Some good forensic work, some speculation, good interviews. I had always thought it was either the brother or mother, and after viewing this mini-doc, have not changed my mind. The travesty is that Jon-Bonet will never get justice, and the prosecutor was obviously bought off or threatened in some way.

 

[Bob001]

This blogger proposes a theory of the crime where John Ramsey killed his daughter to cover up prior sexual abuse, and was in the process of staging the kidnapping when his wife inadvertently found his ransom note too soon and called the police without asking him, setting things in motion before he could finish his plan. His plan in this case would have been to use the fake ransom note as an excuse to leave the house that morning for the ransom exchange when in reality he would be taking the body for disposal.

It also explains the bizarre broken window in the basement which John claims was broken months prior to the crime and he just never got around to fixing it - with that being a quickly improvised excuse for his half finished staging.
....

The CBS experts didn't seem to think there was any proof of sexual abuse. They discounted the idea that someone could have entered or left through the (small) basement window because it had old cobwebs around the frame and broken panes that were not disturbed. John was apparently telling the truth about not fixing it. They felt pretty strongly that Patsy drafted the note: her pad, her pen and handwriting strongly similar to hers. They also felt that Jon-Benet was pretty much Patsy's princess, shining in those pageants whose films were so widely shown. They didn't see any reason that John or Patsy would have killed their daughter. But the brother had displayed continuing hostility toward his little sister and was downright weird in other ways.

 

[Henri McPhee]

CBS has just concluded a four-hour, two-night documentary in which expert investigators, including forensic examiner Henry Lee, reviewed all of the original reports and as much other material as they could get about the Jon-Benet Ramsay murder, and talked to numerous participants, including police officers and a grand juror. They concluded that her 10-year-old brother Burke smacked his sister with a Maglite -- he had previously hit her with a golf club -- hard enough to kill her, intentionally or accidentally. Then parents John and Patsy set about furiously staging the scene and drafting a bogus ransom note to try save their son. Apparently the grand jury voted to indict the parents for the cover-up, but the prosecutor refused. Their conclusions are compelling. Thoughts?
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/jonbenet-killed-older-brother-cbs-experts-article-1.2799713
http://www.rollingstone.com/culture...t-ramsey-everything-we-learned-so-far-w440647
http://www.rollingstone.com/culture/news/the-case-of-jonbenet-ramsey-everything-we-learned-w440951
http://www.cbs.com/shows/the-case-o...83AF1D780/the-case-of-jonbenet-ramsey-part-1/
http://www.cbs.com/shows/the-case-o...ouD2558io/the-case-of-jonbenet-ramsey-part-2/

That's a load of bollocks. Even the Boulder Police Department have never suggested Burke did it. I believe Ramsey lawyer Lin Wood now intends to sue former police chief Kolar, who has suggested in public that Burke did it.

Boulder County homicide detective Steve Ainsworth had Fleet White and Chris Wolf and Santa Bill as the prime suspects. Ainsworth was supported in that by Detective Lou Smit. Those suspects were never properly, or thoroughly, investigated by the Boulder Police Department, or by the FBI.

My own theory is that there was a sex party involving Fleet White and the mother of Nancy Krebs, who was involved in child prostitution, and who knew Fleet White, and also Lockheed Martin, and perhaps some VIPs, who wish to cover it up and blame it all on the Ramseys.

The matter was fully discussed in a Ramsey v Chris Wolf lawsuit in about 2003. This is part of the conclusion Judge Carnes came to at the time:

"Carnes reserved special criticism for Thomas, the former Boulder detective upon whose theories the Wolf complaint was based. "Whereas Detective Smit's summary testimony concerning the investigation is based on evidence, Detective Thomas' theories appear to lack substantial evidentiary support," she wrote.

"Indeed, while Detective Smit is an experienced and respected homicide detective, Detective Thomas had no investigative experience concerning homicide cases prior to this case. In short, the plaintiff's evidence that the [Ramseys] killed their daughter and covered up their crime is based on little more than the fact that defendants were present in the house during the murder," Carnes wrote."

 

[lionking]

That's a load of bollocks. Even the Boulder Police Department have never suggested Burke did it. I believe Ramsey lawyer Lin Wood now intends to sue former police chief Kolar, who has suggested in public that Burke did it.
."

I certainly hope so. The case has been investigated thoroughly. Let it go.

 

[ddt]

Boulder County homicide detective Steve Ainsworth had Fleet White and Chris Wolf and Santa Bill as the prime suspects. Ainsworth was supported in that by Detective Lou Smit. Those suspects were never properly, or thoroughly, investigated by the Boulder Police Department, or by the FBI.

Evidence?

My own theory is that there was a sex party involving Fleet White and the mother of Nancy Krebs, who was involved in child prostitution, and who knew Fleet White, and also Lockheed Martin, and perhaps some VIPs, who wish to cover it up and blame it all on the Ramseys.

You can stop right there. A ring of high-and-mighty pedophiles? That belongs in the same category as satanic cults: moral panic. "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence".

I certainly hope so. The case has been investigated thoroughly. Let it go.

Why that? When something new comes up, or when someone has a fresh take on the case, by all means, go ahead. I'm not particularly interested in this case, so I'm not bothered by presence or absence of discussion on it.

It seems though that this documentary didn't bring new facts. Their take on the background noises in the 91 call wasn't novel either.

What strikes me about their conclusion is this: why cover it up if Burke, the son, hit her? First of all, it would have been accidental, or at least interpreted as accidental; and secondly, the age of criminal responsibility in Colorado is 10, so the DA could not have prosecuted him.

 

[N0z]

CBS has just concluded a four-hour, two-night documentary in which expert investigators, including forensic examiner Henry Lee, reviewed all of the original reports and as much other material as they could get about the Jon-Benet Ramsay murder, and talked to numerous participants, including police officers and a grand juror. They concluded that her 10-year-old brother Burke smacked his sister with a Maglite -- he had previously hit her with a golf club -- hard enough to kill her, intentionally or accidentally. Then parents John and Patsy set about furiously staging the scene and drafting a bogus ransom note to try save their son. Apparently the grand jury voted to indict the parents for the cover-up, but the prosecutor refused. Their conclusions are compelling. Thoughts?
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/jonbenet-killed-older-brother-cbs-experts-article-1.2799713
http://www.rollingstone.com/culture...t-ramsey-everything-we-learned-so-far-w440647
http://www.rollingstone.com/culture/news/the-case-of-jonbenet-ramsey-everything-we-learned-w440951
http://www.cbs.com/shows/the-case-o...83AF1D780/the-case-of-jonbenet-ramsey-part-1/
http://www.cbs.com/shows/the-case-o...ouD2558io/the-case-of-jonbenet-ramsey-part-2/

How do you explain the taser marks?

 

[Cainkane1]

I think her brother killed her in a fit of sibling rivalry rage and his parents covered it up.

 

[LTC8K6]

The pineapple is very curious.

The marks on Jonbenet's neck would seem to indicate that she was trying to remove the rope as she was being strangled, meaning she was alive and had enough mental capacity to defend herself.

It seems like there were a litany of mistakes and interdepartmental conflicts that doomed this case from the start.

Cobwebs? Spiders rebuild those rapidly and determining the age of one seems dubious.

The door to my office gets little webs built on it in the corners. If you clean them off, they are back again very soon.

 

[LTC8K6]

I think her brother killed her in a fit of sibling rivalry rage and his parents covered it up.

I do think it is Burke's voice on the phone, even though it's quite difficult to tell what is said, I do think we hear three voices, one female and two different males.

I do think Burke is indeed awake at the time of the 911 call, and standing near the phone.

EDIT: Referring to the voices heard after the phone is put down, but not actually hung up. The abrupt attempted hang-up of the phone is odd.

 

[Sergei Walankov]

I agree with nearly every word in Rolling Stone's critique of the show -- theatrical behaviour of the presenter-investigators, persistent patterns of confirmation bias, creative interpretation of noise on the phone call recording, peddling of statement analysis and profiling pseudo-science, and general irresponsibility. But I still think the show's overall theory very likely correct.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

stomach versus duodenum; fingernails

The pineapple is very curious.

Yes, but someone (perhaps the coroner in writing his report), made a mistake. Bits of recognizable pineapple should not be found in the intestine. They might be found in the stomach, but the stomach reduces material to 1-2 mm before allowing it to pass into the duodenum: "Antropyloric contractions occur and the pylorus partially opens, causing a “sieving effect” in which liquids and small particles (< 1 to 2 mm) flow continuously from the stomach into the duodenum, whereas the indigestible particles greater in size than the pyloric opening are retropelled and retained in the stomach." DOI: 10.1111/j.1750-3841.2008.00766.x Kong and Singh, "Disintegration of Solid Foods in Human Stomach."

If there is DNA underneath her fingernails (and I have not been able to nail this down with a primary source), then that cannot easily be ignored. As Peter Gill points out in "Misleading DNA Evidence," non-self DNA under fingernails is uncommon. Clothing is a separate story.

 

[Henri McPhee]

I think her brother killed her in a fit of sibling rivalry rage and his parents covered it up.

That's just a theory without facts. This is what Judge Carnes said about the pineapple in her ruling in about 2003:

"Relying solely on the testimony of Mr. Thomas, who has no apparent expertise as a medical examiner, plaintiff fixes the time of death at around one a.m. "suggested by the digestion rate of pineapple found in the child's stomach." (PSDMF ¶ 47.) The coroner's report does indicate that a vegetable or fruit matter consistent with pineapple was found in JonBenét's stomach during the autopsy. (Boulder Coroner Report at 6.) The report, however, does not establish a time of death based on the digestion rate of the unidentified matter.

Plaintiff also theorizes, based on the presence of the unidentified matter in JonBenét's stomach that, contrary to Mrs. Ramsey's testimony, she was up during the night and fed JonBenét the pineapple. (PSDMF ¶ 45.) There is no evidence in the record that indicates when JonBenét ate the pineapple. Defendants state they did not feed JonBenét pineapple upon returning home from the White's party that evening. (SMF ¶ 13.) Mr. White does not recall if pineapple was served at his dinner party on December 25, 1996. (F. White Dep. at 202.)"

 

[Bob001]

How do you explain the taser marks?

Watch the show. The experts determined that there were NO taser marks, in part by actually tasing a cop. They concluded that the marks were made by a piece of a toy train set, as by Burke poking an apparently unconscious Jon-Benet to try to wake her up. And why would an adult need a taser to control a six-year-old anyway?

They also made the point that a taser doesn't knock anyone out. If she had been tased, she would have been screaming.

 

[William Parcher]

What strikes me about their conclusion is this: why cover it up if Burke, the son, hit her? First of all, it would have been accidental, or at least interpreted as accidental; and secondly, the age of criminal responsibility in Colorado is 10, so the DA could not have prosecuted him.

A cover-up may have been immediately set upon by the parents because they knew that if Burke were factually responsible for her death (even if accidental) he would have to live out his life with everyone in the world knowing that.

They had just lost their daughter for forever. They wouldn't also want to "lose" their son forever by having him branded with a Scarlet Letter. That might take about 10 seconds for a parent to realize. You can't save JonBenet but now you can save Burke.

 

[Henri McPhee]

Evidence?

You can stop right there. A ring of high-and-mighty pedophiles? That belongs in the same category as satanic cults: moral panic. "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence".

It seems though that this documentary didn't bring new facts. Their take on the background noises in the 91 call wasn't novel either.

What strikes me about their conclusion is this: why cover it up if Burke, the son, hit her? First of all, it would have been accidental, or at least interpreted as accidental; and secondly, the age of criminal responsibility in Colorado is 10, so the DA could not have prosecuted him.

The background to Detective Steve Ainsworth's involvement in the JonBenet case can be found in a Boulder Daily Camera article in about 2001:

"Lou Smit, a retired homicide investigator who worked on the Ramsey case for 18 months, went public in May with autopsy photos, crime-scene photos and his theory that an intruder killed the girl. Smit went to court for the right to retain the evidence after resigning in frustration as an investigator for the Boulder County District Attorney's Office. He presented his evidence in a five-day appearance on NBC's "Today" show and in a documentary aired in England last week.

It was those who joined him — Boulder County sheriff's Det. Steve Ainsworth and El Paso County Sheriff John Anderson — who angered Beckner. Beckner didn't send a letter to the Arapahoe County coroner, who also supported Smit's theories on "Today."

In a five-page memo written May 6, the Sunday after the NBC series concluded, Beckner asked that Ainsworth be removed from a countywide shooting investigation team and said he wouldn't be allowed to participate in future joint police-sheriff investigations managed by the city.

Beckner also asked that Ainsworth apologize for speaking about the Ramsey homicide investigation on national television and said he wouldn't allow police investigators to share confidential information with Ainsworth.

Beckner wrote that he had verbally complained to Boulder County Sheriff George Epp previously about Ainsworth's quotes in a Daily Camera story and his role as a technical adviser for a television drama on the case.

"I did not want to take this step, but given the recent and continued actions of Steve Ainsworth in regards to the JonBenét murder investigation, I now feel I have no choice," Beckner wrote.

A brief internal investigation resulted in a letter "counseling" Ainsworth, Sheriff's Office sources said. Epp wouldn't discuss how Beckner's other requests were handled, although he said Ainsworth wouldn't participate in shooting investigations involving Boulder police.

"It's very important for my office to have a good working relationship with the officers of the Boulder Police Department," Epp said. "I believe that Steve Ainsworth is one of the best detectives I've ever seen, and I have full confidence in him and his abilities."

Beckner also wrote a letter May 10 chastising Anderson for talking to the Rocky Mountain News, which quoted Anderson as saying, "What concerns me isn't just that the Ramseys have been crucified, it's that a killer is still at large." Anderson worked with Smith in the Colorado Springs Police Department and in the sheriff's office.

Wrote Beckner: "I am appalled that a police executive would be so outspoken about another agency's ongoing investigation. ... It is beyond my comprehension as to why you would make such irresponsible statements indicating you believe a predator is on the loose and that we are not trying to find him."

Anderson replied in early June, noting that Beckner has been quoted in the media saying there is "no physical evidence of an intruder" and that "no one outside a family member is considered under the umbrella of suspicion." Anderson wrote that it would be wrong for Beckner to discount Smit's information because he might be right.

"I think there's plenty of evidence to show that the Ramseys didn't do it," said Bob Russel, a former El Paso County prosecutor representing Smit. "There still seems to be an innuendo or presence by the Boulder police against the Ramseys, when in fact, they can't prove the case."

 

[BStrong]

My .02 after having watched part II:

The brother killed his sister, Mom and Dad covered it up.

The Boulder PD did their job.

The case was tanked by the DA's office for reasons unclear.

ETA -Henri, has anyone accused of or convicted of a crime ever been guilty as charged?