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Did Hitler REALLY make the trains run on time?

Undesired Walrus

Penultimate Amazing
Undesired Walrus
Joined
Apr 10, 2007
Messages
11,691
It's often I've been in a pub and a contrarian has said 'Well, that Hitler, he was a evil man and all, but he did do a lot of good for Germany after he got in'.

What I want to know, is whether the Germany often shown in archive images (Brand new motorways, happy, employed workers, nourished children) is actually representative of the state of Germany in reality. Is this Germany a great myth?
 
A lot people seem to think so, in my experience.
Even here in Spain, I have friends who say with hand on heart, that life was fantastic, simply fantastic with Franco.
It would be interesting to see where the truth lies.
 
Ask them how much of Hitler's success was based on the policies of the Weimar Republic. They are the dudes who contracted with the Soviet Union to carry out wargames et al.

Also, the German railroad organisation in Normandy 1944 sucked to high heaven.
 
i hear the trains to Auschwitz moved very smoothly and efficiently. very few complaints from the passengers.
 
Undesired Walrus said:
It's often I've been in a pub and a contrarian has said 'Well, that Hitler, he was a evil man and all, but he did do a lot of good for Germany after he got in'.

What I want to know, is whether the Germany often shown in archive images (Brand new motorways, happy, employed workers, nourished children) is actually representative of the state of Germany in reality. Is this Germany a great myth?
Click to expand...

they are confusing Hitler with Mussolini, its not a problem, its easy to get mixed up with those wartime fascist dictators
so heres snopes with the answer
http://www.snopes.com/history/govern/trains.asp
;)
 
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Akhenaten said:
This is all leading up to another jan-ken-pon post, isn't it?


;)
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yup
Mussolini demonstrating his losing strategy
http://scrapetv.com/News/News Pages/Politics/images-2/benito-mussolini-on-horseback.jpg
and the source for that strategy
http://www.masconomet.org/teachers/pmagner/Secondsemesterreview/Mussolini and Hitler.jpg
and the consequences of choosing paper over scissors
http://cecaust.com.au/images/mussolini-hanging.jpg
even when he really needed them the scissors somehow eluded him
:p
 
More to the point.

Italy has a reputation for not doing things on time. Germany does. The idea about Mussolini was that he supposedly got the trains to run on time by making those responsible live in fear. So the point of saying that Mussolini made the trains run on time is to point out that the ends may not justify the means.

In Germany, the trains run on time with few exceptions for weather. No reign of fear required. Its a cultural thing. Hitler had no positive impact there. Starting a war probably worked against them running on time since allied fighters tended to shoot up engines and rolling stock when returning home from escorting bombers.
 
Doubt said:
More to the point.

Italy has a reputation for not doing things on time. Germany does. The idea about Mussolini was that he supposedly got the trains to run on time by making those responsible live in fear. So the point of saying that Mussolini made the trains run on time is to point out that the ends may not justify the means.
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Mussolini didn't make the trains run on time, it was fascist propoganda, that was the only point to it. It was a claim that he made personally, I doubt he was trying to extoll that he operated by making his followers scared of him, they were his trains,
;)
 
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pakeha said:
A lot people seem to think so, in my experience.
Even here in Spain, I have friends who say with hand on heart, that life was fantastic, simply fantastic with Franco.
It would be interesting to see where the truth lies.
Click to expand...

I heard the same from people who lived under the Soviet Union.

I think it is because in both cases they kept hearing something like: "there is no problem, keep living your lives and do not worry, we'll handle it", as opposed to being made to worry about everything, everywhere in an open society. That, and the fact people tend to forget the worst as the time goes by works to this effect.

McHrozni
 
Cultural memory only goes back about 20 years; everything before that is a golden pre-dawn where you could leave your houses unlocked, etc, etc.
 
Undesired Walrus said:
It's often I've been in a pub and a contrarian has said 'Well, that Hitler, he was a evil man and all, but he did do a lot of good for Germany after he got in'.

What I want to know, is whether the Germany often shown in archive images (Brand new motorways, happy, employed workers, nourished children) is actually representative of the state of Germany in reality. Is this Germany a great myth?
Click to expand...

If you'd have asked the German people in 1937 whether they were happy with the government, they would have said in majority "yes". The explanation for that is simple, to quote Clinton: "it's the economy, stupid".

When Hitler came to power in 1933, the German economy had recently hit rock-bottom with, e.g., 6 million unemployed. Germany was hit extra hard by the crisis as it was heavily dependent on US loans. The economy was already slowly recovering in 1933, and arguably Hitler's government helped that recovery.

For one, this is due to the policies of Hjalmar Schacht, the minister of Economy and president of the German national bank, who had already drawn up a German version of the "New Deal" before 1933. For another, this is due to the re-armament efforts and expansion of the army. The latter also meant that in fact, Germany was already on its way to war.

As to tangible, lasting things, there are precious few. The Autobahn idea predates Hitler - the first one, between Cologne and Bonn, was opened in 1932 by Cologne mayor Adenauer. The first drafts for the Beatle also predate Hitler, and as a "people's car" it never materialized. Hitler did introduce child benefits. Guess why.
 
Undesired Walrus said:
It's often I've been in a pub and a contrarian has said 'Well, that Hitler, he was a evil man and all, but he did do a lot of good for Germany after he got in'.

What I want to know, is whether the Germany often shown in archive images (Brand new motorways, happy, employed workers, nourished children) is actually representative of the state of Germany in reality. Is this Germany a great myth?
Click to expand...

Go to the library and find the issues of National Geographic Magazine that have articles on Germany in the 1930s. This is an unbiased source.
 
McHrozni said:
I heard the same from people who lived under the Soviet Union.

I think it is because in both cases they kept hearing something like: "there is no problem, keep living your lives and do not worry, we'll handle it", as opposed to being made to worry about everything, everywhere in an open society. That, and the fact people tend to forget the worst as the time goes by works to this effect.

McHrozni
Click to expand...

Under Stalin people were rounded up by the Jewish secret police just to fill quotas.
 
Undesired Walrus said:
It's often I've been in a pub and a contrarian has said 'Well, that Hitler, he was a evil man and all, but he did do a lot of good for Germany after he got in'.
...
Click to expand...


The parable in the USA is "Mussolini made the trains run on time."

I'm not sure that makes a difference, except in the possible degree of Fascism.
 
ddt said:
If you'd have asked the German people in 1937 whether they were happy with the government, they would have said in majority "yes". The explanation for that is simple, to quote Clinton: "it's the economy, stupid".

When Hitler came to power in 1933, the German economy had recently hit rock-bottom with, e.g., 6 million unemployed. Germany was hit extra hard by the crisis as it was heavily dependent on US loans. The economy was already slowly recovering in 1933, and arguably Hitler's government helped that recovery.

For one, this is due to the policies of Hjalmar Schacht, the minister of Economy and president of the German national bank, who had already drawn up a German version of the "New Deal" before 1933. For another, this is due to the re-armament efforts and expansion of the army. The latter also meant that in fact, Germany was already on its way to war.

As to tangible, lasting things, there are precious few. The Autobahn idea predates Hitler - the first one, between Cologne and Bonn, was opened in 1932 by Cologne mayor Adenauer. The first drafts for the Beatle also predate Hitler, and as a "people's car" it never materialized. Hitler did introduce child benefits. Guess why.
Click to expand...

So who had the better "New Deal", Hitler or FDR?
I know the answer.
 
MaGZ said:
Another resource concerning Hitler's Germany.

enjoy

http://de.metapedia.org/wiki/Hauptseite
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not a very accurate resource
http://de.metapedia.org/wiki/Holocaust_(Mord)#Antisemitismus_im_Dritten_Reich
Juden said:
The survey of the Nazi extermination of Jews into a modern Civil religion - The so-called Holocaust is - an invention of Jewish circles in the U.S
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seems to be slightly biased
Read the page on Hitler too, it claims he escaped to Spain
http://de.metapedia.org/wiki/Hitler#Spekulationen_um_den_Tod
:D
 
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