Did FEMA recently report temperatures of 2700 degrees F at GZ?

[RKOwens4]

This is from a conversation I had with Jason Bermas at Ground Zero:

Jason: "All right, how about the report... I have a 2700 degree temperatures fahrenheit at the World Trade Center and that was reported less than a week ago."

Me: "Which report was that?"

Jason: "It was in the newspapers. It was by FEMA. Do I really need to pull it up? Alls you have to do is type in '2700 degrees FEMA'".

At first I thought he was talking about the original FEMA report, which explicitly states in Appendix C that the temperatures didn't exceed 1800 degrees F. Halfway through, he changes it from being a report to something in the newspapers. I still have no idea what he's talking about. I've done several searches and nothing from FEMA about this comes up, nor do I remember hearing anything about this in the week before September 11th (or at all). I even checked Prison Planet during the weeks prior and they said nothing about it. Does anyone know what the heck Jason was talking about???

 

[T.A.M.]

tell him to provide a reference, or to shut the **** up.

TAM

 

[kookbreaker]

Bermas pulling facts out of his backside? What are the odds?

 

[ElMondoHummus]

If FEMA did make those measurements directly, I'm unaware of it. However, Bechtel did indeed take measurements, and they must have been subcontracted by somebody (Port Authority, NY City government, NY State Government, FEMA, etc.), so maybe this is what Bermas was referring to. Truthers don't stop and think about all the agencies that were involved at Ground Zero; their work seems to assume that it was all NIST and FEMA.

Anyway, Bechtel's Safety, Health, and Environmental team did say that they measured 2,800 degrees F in some spots. That was recorded in the periodical "Professional Safety", May 2002 edition. 911 Research has the article linked here:

•The debris pile at Ground Zero was always tremendously hot. Thermal measurements taken by helicopter each day showed underground temperatures ranging from 400ºF to more than 2,800ºF. The surface was so hot that standing too long in one spot softened (and even melted) the soles of our safety shoes. Steel toes would often heat up and become intolerable. This heat was also a concern for the search-and-rescue dogs used at the site. Many were not outfitted with protective booties (Photo 13). More than one suffered serious injuries and at least three died while working at Ground Zero. The underground fire burned for exactly 100 days and was finally declared “extinguished” on Dec. 19, 2001.

This of course does not help the thermite thesis one bit, unless Jones et. al. are able to come up with a hypothesis on how thermite burns for weeks to months after the ignition event. For the rest of the world versed in physics, the real calculation to determine temperature is not simply the energy released by the combustion, but also the energy that leaves the system; if it's well insulated, and heat keeps coming in, of course temperatures can get quite high. I'll let posters better educated than me in physics go into more detail; suffice to say that it takes a suspicious mind to make this a suspicious fact. If Bermas is thinking this is somehow a sign of some sort of incendiary, he can then explain weeks to months burn issue for Jones, as well as why there were no other signs of thermite use, such as collections of previously molten iron.

 

[T.A.M.]

It actually helps disprove their crap.

If 2700F existed in the pile, it would account EVEN FOR Molten STEEL. What they have yet to EVER PROVE, is that temps of 2700F COULD NOT EXIST in the pile afterward.

Show scientific proof that such temps could not exist in the pile at GZ...come on, I dare you.

TAM

 

[ElMondoHummus]

Oh, also, I did Googlewhack for "2700 degrees FEMA". I got truther sites, a "rawstory.com" article on a CNN article about 9/11 conspiracy fantasists, a couple of FEMA sites where the number "2700" wasn't in reference to temperature (example: "2700 customers in Escambia County are without power"...), and other, utterly irrelevant links. 3 pages in, the only hits that discussed FEMA and 2700 degrees in the context of 9/11 were truther sites. Go figure.

 

[ElMondoHummus]

It actually helps disprove their crap.

If 2700F existed in the pile, it would account EVEN FOR Molten STEEL. What they have yet to EVER PROVE, is that temps of 2700F COULD NOT EXIST in the pile afterward.

Show scientific proof that such temps could not exist in the pile at GZ...come on, I dare you.

TAM

Yes, TAM, I agree. Ryan Mackey has also pointed this out before. So much that conspiracy fantasists submit cannot be separated from the rubble pile fires. Molten steel could have occurred post collapse. The eutectic melting could have occurred post collapse. Fantasists don't seem to pay attention to that fact.

 

[RKOwens4]

I've done several more searches and still have no idea what he was talking about. I looked through 911truth.org's articles on its main page from August 5th - September 16th, 2008 and there's absolutely nothing about either FEMA or 2700 degree temperatures. Does anyone know of any way to get in touch with Jason Bermas (email address?) so that I can ask him to send me a link?

And I did ask one truther who was handing out AE911truth pamphlets and talking about molten steel if actual controlled demolitions have ever left behind pools molten steel... he then said thermite creates molten steel. When I told them that thermite has never been used in any controlled demolition in history, he immediately changed the subject. I would have asked Jason to explain how thermite can possibly create pools of molten steel, but he too kept rapidly changing the subject from one thing to another.

 

[ULTIMA1]

This of course does not help the thermite thesis one bit, unless Jones et. al. are able to come up with a hypothesis on how thermite burns for weeks to months after the ignition event. .

Well it could be 1 of the reasons why the EPA requested NASA to overfly the area with AVIRIS.

The EPA also originally thought that the radiation at the WTC and Pentagon was casued by Depleted Uranium from the planes.

Problem is the 757 and 767 do not cary DU they carry Tungsten.

 

[Baylor]

Tell Jason you had and RFID chip planted in your forearm and watch him go apes***

 

[defaultdotxbe]

This is from a conversation I had with Jason Bermas at Ground Zero:

Jason: "All right, how about the report... I have a 2700 degree temperatures fahrenheit at the World Trade Center and that was reported less than a week ago."

Me: "Which report was that?"

Jason: "It was in the newspapers. It was by FEMA. Do I really need to pull it up? Alls you have to do is type in '2700 degrees FEMA'".

At first I thought he was talking about the original FEMA report, which explicitly states in Appendix C that the temperatures didn't exceed 1800 degrees F. Halfway through, he changes it from being a report to something in the newspapers. I still have no idea what he's talking about. I've done several searches and nothing from FEMA about this comes up, nor do I remember hearing anything about this in the week before September 11th (or at all). I even checked Prison Planet during the weeks prior and they said nothing about it. Does anyone know what the heck Jason was talking about???

well i just put "2700 degrees fema" into google and got a whole lot of nothing

if it was in newspapers ask for publication, volume and issue (and page, title and byline if possible) but i dont even think your gonna get anything

 

[ElMondoHummus]

Guys, he probably got it from us, and the article Dr. Greening found that I've oddly been getting a ton of use from. And true to truther form, the actual number is off:

http://911research.wtc7.net/cache/wtc/analysis/asse_groundzero1.htm

Thermal measurements taken by helicopter each day showed underground temperatures ranging from 400ºF to more than 2,800ºF.

See my first post in this thread.

 

[Quad4_72]

Well it could be 1 of the reasons why the EPA requested NASA to overfly the area with AVIRIS.

The EPA also originally thought that the radiation at the WTC and Pentagon was casued by Depleted Uranium from the planes.

Problem is the 757 and 767 do not cary DU they carry Tungsten.

WTF are you talking about?

 

[ElMondoHummus]

WTF are you talking about?

Who knows? The only "radiation" study I'm aware of is the Lawrence Berkeley one on tritium levels at Ground Zero, it's not done by the EPA, and it's hardly lends itself to any radiation scares. The elevated levels identified in the study are minute, and easily attributable to mundane sources (glow-in-the-dark sights on law enforcement weapons from the WTC 6 armory, for example). But that's tritium, not uranium.

 

[gumboot]

WTF are you talking about?

Sounds suspiciously like that theory that modified aircraft with DU nose cones were used to hit the towers, since everyone knows an ordinary airliner would bounce off.

 

[TjW]

Well it could be 1 of the reasons why the EPA requested NASA to overfly the area with AVIRIS.

The EPA also originally thought that the radiation at the WTC and Pentagon was casued by Depleted Uranium from the planes.

Problem is the 757 and 767 do not cary DU they carry Tungsten.

WTF are you talking about?

The movable surfaces such as ailerons and elevators are "mass-balanced" on some airplanes. That is, they have weight added forward of the hinge point so that they balance at the hinge point. This helps to prevent flutter.
The denser the balancing material, the less of it you have to use, and so the lighter things can be overall.
Depleted uranium was formerly used by Boeing and McDonnell-Douglas, but I think practically every manufacturer has switched to tungsten now.
I don't know for a fact this is what he meant, but it's the only connection I have in my mind regarding depleted uranium and airplanes.

 

[Quad4_72]

The movable surfaces such as ailerons and elevators are "mass-balanced" on some airplanes. That is, they have weight added forward of the hinge point so that they balance at the hinge point. This helps to prevent flutter.
The denser the balancing material, the less of it you have to use, and so the lighter things can be overall.
Depleted uranium was formerly used by Boeing and McDonnell-Douglas, but I think practically every manufacturer has switched to tungsten now.
I don't know for a fact this is what he meant, but it's the only connection I have in my mind regarding depleted uranium and airplanes.

Dare I say, HE doesn't know what he meant...

 

[CurtC]

Anyway, Bechtel's Safety, Health, and Environmental team did say that they measured 2,800 degrees F in some spots.

Doesn't that mean that the 2800F underground temp was inferred from surface measurements of cooler temps?

 

[ElMondoHummus]

Doesn't that mean that the 2800F underground temp was inferred from surface measurements of cooler temps?

The article linked above doesn't go into that much detail. It merely notes the ranges.

It's all irrelevant to conspiracy fantasies anyway; those are post collapse measurements that don't necessarily indicate much about pre-collapse conditions. They show there were fires prior to collapse, and that's about it. Everyone figured that out a long time ago.

 

[ULTIMA1]

Depleted uranium was formerly used by Boeing and McDonnell-Douglas, but I think practically every manufacturer has switched to tungsten now..

Exactly the point. The EPA just assumend the planes were carrying DU because the older planes like the 747 carried lots of DU, but the 757 and 767 carry tungsten not DU.

There have been accidents with older 747s that casued radiation from the DU they carried.