Danger of the Internet

Shinytop

Thinker
Joined
Aug 20, 2003
Messages
236
There comes along once in while an invention, a breakthrough, if you will, whose benefit is matched only by its potential for danger. The Internet is just such a breakthrough. And I am not even talking about the danger of viruses and trojans. I am talking about the danger of believing too much of what you read.

Do we need courses on the danger of the net? Hell yes! But they need to be extensions of courses on critical thinking. They need to teach that just because you want to believe something and you find a site on the net that supports your wishes, it does not mean you have found confirmation. Critical thinking of all information you read, download, hear, or see is essential to intelligent thinking and to making informed decisions. Question it all, and then question the sites you go to for answers.

Do we need courses that teach intelligent use of the net? Yes, but they should be courses taught without any more reference to the net than to TV or radio or print. Teaching your children to think for themselves might even make up for not teaching them about religion, morales, or sex.

Why do I write this. Because I see posters being taken for task for writing their opinions. Because I see posters citing a list of sources and then defending them to the death. I just feel it needs to be pointed out that any opinion can be backed if one just does good searches. It does not prove a damn thing.

And I have been told I need to make it more clear when I post an opinion as opposed to when I post fact. I gotta tell you, I don't care how many big words you use, how learned you claim to be, or how many times you ask for a source, your posts are treated as opinion until I am convinced either by the logic of what you say or the validity of your sources.

I would also like to say that "logical fallacies" have both strengths and weaknesses. The strength can lie in identifying arguments that are based entirely on the fallacies. What I have seen in this forum is using the fallacies as a way of dismissing posts similar to labels such as conservative and liberal. A post may contain a logical fallacy and still have valid points. Do you dismiss people's opinions based solely on the highest grade they achieved in formal schooling? If you do you obviously will miss out on many intelligent ideas just as you do if you look for a "logical fallacy" and dismiss the poster and his ideas because you connected two dots while ignoring the other 100 dots on the page.

If I am wrong and this forum is based solely on what you can prove with two hundred links please let me know. But I have found my enjoyment and gain from forums lies more often in sharing the ideas of the posters rather than in who can post the most links or shout the most or use the biggest words.
 
I find new inventions tend to be used for porn rather than danger.
 
Doncha just hate that when you post some earth shattering statement and some wag comes along and responds "cites please".

Since the internet can be used for child pornography and facilitate terrorists communicating, perhaps we should shut it down. After all, think of the children .......

Charlie (a study has shown 96.8% of child molesters own a fridge) Monoxide
 
Re: Re: Danger of the Internet

arcticpenguin said:

No, it was for stating your opinion as fact.

I aleady agreed with you once. Did you actually read all of the above or do you just want to snipe?
 
Re: Re: Re: Danger of the Internet

Shinytop said:

I aleady agreed with you once. Did you actually read all of the above or do you just want to snipe?
Yes, I actually read all of your post.

You seem to be saying, "to heck with critical thinking, let's all hold hands and sing Kumbaya".
 
Porn ...

Tmy said:
I find new inventions tend to be used for porn rather than danger.

Porn is danger, right??? right??? Any decent American knows that, right???
 
Hey, if I cite from memory or my text books, noone can see it. I always find links that support my texts, if not then they just support my point, not so much my 'facts'. Doesn't make me 'right' though. At least I can admit it. ;) :p

If noone believes you because your points have no validity, give it up already.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Danger of the Internet

arcticpenguin said:

Yes, I actually read all of your post.

You seem to be saying, "to heck with critical thinking, let's all hold hands and sing Kumbaya".

No, I did not say anything of the kind. I said listen more to ideas of posters and do less judging based on anything but their ideas. The way to knowledge is not dismissing posters but considering their thoughts.

Of course, that does not mean idiots won't still post.
 
Regnad Kcin said:
Shinytop seems to be all a-twitter over the course (or "coarse") (chortle) of discussion over here. Gracious!

Once again you are too ignorant to actually consider what was written rather than try to tie into something else. Why don't you save up and buy a clue. You have proven once again you are an ignorant troll not capable of independent thought. I am not surprised you missed the whole point of the post.
 
Opinions

I do think opinions are valuable, and it is interesting to see what folks are thinking and why they think it.

We must realize that there are a lot of opinions out there, and I enjoy folks sharing them, whether there is tons of research to back it up or not. We do always need to be aware though that not all opinions are necessarily based on fact, and may be wrong, but with the internet available, you can always do research.

Perhaps where the danger lies, is when folks use opinions to make laws, rules, make important decisions, etc, when there is no factual evidence to really back them up, etc.

I always hear about the porn on the internet and how it is corrupting folks, and I am not sure that there are any studies out there that back this up. The government I believe did a study several years back on the effects of porn, but am not really sure of the findings.

I do know that teen pregnancy rates have actually been going down over the last 10 years, does that mean it has helped? And I know that it looked like child abductions seemed to skyrocket at one time, but then the experts just said it was due to increased media attention, and they were just the same. So, has the internet caused that? But maybe it has affected things I don't know about. I did see that Microsoft shut down their chat rooms, but am not really sure that they know what they are doing, and what impact it will have.

So my opinion, is that the internet is overall a great invention, and that the positives far outweigh any negatives about it. Just always be aware of what is fact and what is opinion, but it is OK to express both, as long as it is facts that govern the making of laws, rules, and important decisions.
 
Re: Opinions

nightwind said:
I do think opinions are valuable, and it is interesting to see what folks are thinking and why they think it.

I disagree with this as a general statement. I think _supported_ (or supportable) opinions are certainly valuable.

However, _unsupported_ (or unsupportable) opinions are absolutely worthless. They are as valuable as hearing a favorite color.

"Hey all, I like the color red."
 
Re: Re: Opinions

pgwenthold said:


I disagree with this as a general statement. I think _supported_ (or supportable) opinions are certainly valuable.

However, _unsupported_ (or unsupportable) opinions are absolutely worthless. They are as valuable as hearing a favorite color.

"Hey all, I like the color red."

So you are saying that all inspirations to inventors, philosphers, and artists were based solely on fact. So you are saying that no thought is worth sharing until one can show facts to back it up. So you are saying that no inspirational discussions can take place here if facts are not yet available. How sad.
 
Re: Re: Re: Opinions

Shinytop said:


So you are saying that all inspirations to inventors, philosphers, and artists were based solely on fact. So you are saying that no thought is worth sharing until one can show facts to back it up. So you are saying that no inspirational discussions can take place here if facts are not yet available. How sad.

They in principle can, _but_ the likelyhood that they will be born out is miniscule.

Here's the problem with your "inspirations to inventors, etc": you only hear about the success. You don't hear about the countless dead-end ideas that are tried before something works.

As Pauling said, when someone asked him how he had so many great ideas: "I have lots of ideas and throw out the bad ones." Or Edison, who said that one thing that he learned while making the light bulb was 10 000 ways not to make a light bulb. And that was even given a tremendous insight and knowledge, i.e. "supported opinion."
 
How much worse off are we for a philosophical discussion that puts to rest somebody's idea? How worse off are we for listening and commenting on the inspirations of an inventor? How much worse off are we for taking part in discussions that are not provable by scientific sites? How much philosophy is provable? I suspect the science forum is more in line with proof. Certainly politics, current events and history are open to opinions not previously stated. If we limit discussions to exclude all new thoughts on politics, current events and history we could save a lot of time by not even coming here and sitting in the appropriate sections of our public libraries. Yes, I understand that one should not state the Declaration of Independence was signed on 1976 as this is a provable event. But many events are open to discussion and one site or even twenty sites do not prove every case. An example is the right to bear arms. By reading the Constitution and comments by many signers we can easily see why both sides feel they are correct. Yet both sides can cite many sites that back up their belief. Should we end all discussion of this political issue since no side had been proven right or wrong? (Of course, rulings by the SC seem to settle these issues while we bicker.)
 
If I am wrong and this forum is based solely on what you can prove with two hundred links please let me know. But I have found my enjoyment and gain from forums lies more often in sharing the ideas of the posters rather than in who can post the most links or shout the most or use the biggest words.

I think I agree about the links...and reading them can be very time consuming. Then if you don't agree you feel compelled to go searching for impressive reply links. I find myself doing this alot lately and you're right, almost "any opinion can be backed if one just does good searches". Do we really take in what the opposing links show? Or do we just tend to skim and then madly search for a bigger, bolder link.

Of course it is really worthwhile to do some solid research and share what you've found, but on a discussion board if someone posts a whole heap of graphs, links and statistics etc, the essential argument can become lost if your not willing/don't have time to pore over them and then rush off and check your almanec to make sure they actually add up. Better to make a general argument and then post links for those who want to delve further.

In the end I'm more impressed by a good off the cuff argument than a plethora of quotes and links. But links or no links, we're all probably wasting our time anyway since it's practically impossible to shift people from their respective positions!

"If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence."

Bertrand Russell
 
I've actually changed my mind about a few things through forums like this one. Getting a great overview of the war on terrorism has caused me to understand why, and to support any efforts-including the Iraq war. Seeing all the close minded comments about the USA and such also allowed me to see how shallow the anti-war arguments were.

I've also learned a lot about subjects I've hardly ever heard of otherwise. I know how much arguments on a forum can influence a person when first learning about a topic. I've learned to search on my own about any topic as a result.

Then if a topic is wholly ridiculous I'll just clown around. Why be serious about something so silly? Arguing about it is worthless, so throw in some humor. It can often get the point across better.

I value these forums especially and enjoy seeing the different viewpoints. Even silly or 'wrong' opinions help put together a bigger picture. I don't care if an opinion is 'wrong' or 'useless', it's still an interesting insight into a different perspective.
 
Shinytop said:
Once again you are too ignorant to actually consider what was written rather than try to tie into something else. Why don't you save up and buy a clue. You have proven once again you are an ignorant troll not capable of independent thought. I am not surprised you missed the whole point of the post.
Like I said, neither honor nor grace.
 

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