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Curses!

Oh yeah I read about this today. It's stupid beyond belief.

Mr Tootle said: "Various Christian groups have approached me, and they opposed it at the time and there was a petition saying, please don't bring the stone here and put the curse back on us.

"We have had floods, pestilence, a great big fire in the city - it is of biblical proportions."
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Wow! If they ever introduce exaggeration as an Olympic event my money's on Mr Tootle.

Let's see what floods pestilence and fire Carlisle has had:
Ooh! The biblical floods have delayed construction of a sporting venue!
I couldn't find a reference to a big fire on the BBC website so I declare it to be not technically of biblical proportions.
I also couldn't find any reference to 'pestilence' or 'disease', so it's a bit hard to tell what the man is drivelling on about.
However I did read in the paper today that the stone was also being blamed for Carlisle's relegation from league 2 last season. Are they sure Uri wasn't in town?


But my utter favourite bit of the story:
The city council also said local Christian groups, including the Bishop of Carlisle, were consulted and were in agreement with the Cursing Stone and a blessing was included within the artwork.
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What, precisely, are we to take away from that bizarre statement?
'It's all bollocks, but don't worry because if it is true we've put in a blessing as a sort of circuit breaker."

The councillor, by the way, was Lib Dem and has done his party no favours by connecting himself to such nonsense.

And Kimpatsu, I think you'll find that the spirit of Salem actually originated in, er, Salem, Massachusetts, USA.
 
Ashles said:
And Kimpatsu, I think you'll find that the spirit of Salem actually originated in, er, Salem, Massachusetts, USA.
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Yes; so what's your point? It's the notion of witch hunting that's still alive, regardless of location.
 
This is quite the curse. A translation:


"I curse their head and all the hairs of their head; I curse their face, their brain (innermost thoughts), their mouth, their nose, their tongue, their teeth, their forehead, their shoulders, their breast, their heart, their stomach, their back, their womb, their arms, their leggs, their hands, their feet, and every part of their body, from the top of their head to the soles of their feet, before and behind, within and without."

"I curse them going and I curse them riding; I curse them standing and I curse them sitting; I curse them eating and I curse them drinking; I curse them rising, and I curse them lying; I curse them at home, I curse them away from home; I curse them within the house, I curse them outside of the house; I curse their wives, their children, and their servants who participate in their deeds. I (bring ill wishes upon) their crops, their cattle, their wool, their sheep, their horses, their swine, their geese, their hens, and all their livestock. I (bring ill wishes upon) their halls, their chambers, their kitchens, their stanchions, their barns, their cowsheds, their barnyards, their cabbage patches, their plows, their harrows, and the goods and houses that are necessary for their sustenance and welfare."

"May all the malevolent wishes and curses ever known, since the beginning of the world, to this hour, light on them. May the malediction of God, that fell upon Lucifer and all his fellows, that cast them from the high Heaven to the deep hell, light upon them."

"May the fire and the sword that stopped Adam from the gates of Paradise, stop them from the glory of Heaven, until they forebear, and make amends."

"May the evil that fell upon cursed Cain, when he slew his brother Abel, needlessly, fall on them for the needless slaughter that they commit daily."

"May the malediction that fell upon all the world, man and beast, and all that ever took life, when all were drowned by the flood of Noah, except Noah and his ark, fall upon them and drown them, man and beast, and make this realm free of them, for their wicked sins."

"May the thunder and lightning which rained down upon Sodom and Gomorra and all the lands surrounding them, and burned them for their vile sins, rain down upon them and burn them for their open sins. May the evil and confusion that fell on the Gigantis for their opression and pride in building the Tower of Babylon, confound them and all their works, for their open callous disregard and opression."

"May all the plagues that fell upon Pharoah and his people of Egypt, their lands, crops and cattle, fall upon them, their equipment, their places, their lands, their crops and livestock."

"May the waters of the Tweed and other waters which they use, drown them, as the Red Sea drowned King Pharoah and the people of Egypt, preserving God's people of Israel."

"May the earth open, split and cleave, and swallow them straight to hell, as it swallowed cursed Dathan and Abiron, who disobeyed Moses and the command of God."

"May the wild fire that reduced Thore and his followers to two-hundred-fifty in number, and others from 14,000 to 7,000 at anys, usurping against Moses and Aaron, servants of God, suddenly burn and consume them daily, for opposing the commands of God and Holy Church."

"May the malediction that suddenly fell upon fair Absolom, riding through the wood against his father, King David, when the branches of a tree knocked him from his horse and hanged him by the hair, fall upon these untrue Scotsmen and hang them the same way, that all the world may see."

"May the malediction that fell upon Nebuchadnezzar's lieutenant, Olifernus, making war and savagery upon true christian men; the malediction that fell upon Judas, Pilate, Herod, and the Jews that crucified Our Lord; and all the plagues and troubles that fell on the city of Jerusalem therefore, and upon Simon Magus for his treachery, bloody Nero, Ditius Magcensius, Olibrius, Julianus Apostita and the rest of the cruel tyrants who slew and murdered Christ's holy servants, fall upon them for their cruel tyranny and murder of Christian people."

"And may all the vengeance that ever was taken since the world began, for open sins, and all the plagues and pestilence that ever fell on man or beast, fall on them for their openly evil ways, senseless slaughter and shedding of innocent blood."

"I sever and part them from the church of God, and deliver them immediately to the devil of hell, as the Apostle Paul delivered Corinth. I bar the entrance of all places they come to, for divine service and ministration of the sacraments of holy church, except the sacrament of infant baptism, only; and I forbid all churchmen to hear their confession or to absolve them of their sins, until they are first humbled / subjugated by this curse."

"I forbid all christian men or women to have any company with them, eating, drinking, speaking, praying, lying, going, standing, or in any other deed-doing, under the pain of deadly sin."

"I discharge all bonds, acts, contracts, oaths, made to them by any persons, out of loyalty, kindness, or personal duty, so long as they sustain this cursing, by which no man will be bound to them, and this will be binding on all men."

"I take from them, and cast down all the good deeds that ever they did, or shall do, until they rise from this cursing."

"I declare them excluded from all matins, masses, evening prayers, funerals or other prayers, on book or bead (rosary); of all pigrimages and alms deeds done, or to be done in holy church or be christian people, while this curse is in effect."

"And, finally, I condemn them perpetually to the deep pit of hell, there to remain with Lucifer and all his fellows, and their bodies to the gallows of Burrow moor, first to be hanged, then ripped and torn by dogs, swine, and other wild beasts, abominable to all the world. And their candle (light of their life) goes from your sight, as may their souls go from the face of God, and their good reputation from the world, until they forebear their open sins, aforesaid, and rise from this terrible cursing and make satisfaction and penance."
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The thing I find funniest is the fact that this 'curse' was apparently levelled by the Catholic Archbishop of Glasgow. Isn't witchcraft considered to be Satanic in nature?
 
I declare an interest as a Carlisle United supporter. As far as Carlisle's relegation goes, it's frankly more remarkable that they survived in 2000, 2001, 2002 & 2003.

Of course, in 2003 they had Uri's help: he was supporting Exeter City.

The "pestillence" that Mr. Tootle (crazy name, crazy guy?) is on about was the foot & mouth disease outbreak, which actually started on the other side of the country in Northumberland.
 
"I curse their head and all the hairs of their head; I curse their face, their brain (innermost thoughts), their mouth, their nose, their tongue, their teeth, their forehead, their shoulders, their breast, their heart, their stomach, their back, their womb, their arms, their leggs, their hands, their feet, and every part of their body, from the top of their head to the soles of their feet, before and behind, within and without."

. . . [etc]
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Whoa -- decaf, anyone?
 
Wow! That was quite a curse. It just fills one with the Christian concepts of brotherly love and forgiveness. :(

I wonder what the ritual is for an Archbishop to "lift a curse".

Curse tablets are a pagan survival. They were popular in Roman times. Pagans seem to have been as vengeful as the Glasgow Archbishop, but not as long-winded.

CURSE: TO THE GOD MERCURY ARVERIUS. I COMPLAIN TO YOU, LORD, CONCERNING MY PROPERTY, A CLOAK AND HOOD. WHOEVER STOLE THIS, WHETHER SLAVE OR FREE, WHOEVER STOLE THIS, THE GOD IS NOT TO LET THEM STAND OR SIT, DRINK OR EAT, UNLESS THEY REDEEM IT AT YOUR TEMPLE WITH THEIR OWN BLOOD
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http://www.nb.no/baser/schoyen/4/4.4/443_1.html
 
Ashles said:
Oh yeah I read about this today. It's stupid beyond belief.


Wow! If they ever introduce exaggeration as an Olympic event my money's on Mr Tootle.

Let's see what floods pestilence and fire Carlisle has had:
Ooh! The biblical floods have delayed construction of a sporting venue!
I couldn't find a reference to a big fire on the BBC website so I declare it to be not technically of biblical proportions.
I also couldn't find any reference to 'pestilence' or 'disease', so it's a bit hard to tell what the man is drivelling on about.
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I think you are understating somewhat the effect of the floods - picture 7 here suggests it was fairly nasty and a couple of people died.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_depth/photo_gallery/4159523.stm

Fire - apparently a factory burnt down.

Pestilence/disease - as previously mentioned is supposedly a reference to foot and mouth. That must be a very powerful stone. It managed to spread F&M to the SE, NE and SW of England - the NW (where Carlisle is) was infected late on in the outbreak.
 
Nobody worry! I'll take upon myself to unburden all those innocent, worried souls from this terrible, terrible curse. Just send me the stone, and a small donation, and forget there ever was such a nefarious object around. I'll put up with all the evils the curse may unleash on me. Aren't I brave?

Honestly, some people badly need a neuron. Here in Spain there was a big fire. One of the tallest buildings in Madrid burned to the ground. Very spectacular, really, and a bit strange; I mean, the fire swept like, well, fire, it couldn't be stopped, even though it was a modern builinf with -supposedly- all fire extinguishers working.

Okay, so a few days later some home video reveals some figures moving inside the building, while it was burning. Lots of speculation followed. Not even a day later, the local PSI Society (the, ahem, "Spanish Society of Parapschology") went in there, and a bit later solemnly proclaimed these figures were not ghosts.

No ◊◊◊◊ Sherlock. I'll also proclaim the Carlisle stone is not cursed. I'll do more. I'll send a form letter to all towns in England, thus:

"Since the _____________ was placed in _________, the city has suffered floods, foot-and-mouth disease, job losses and a goal famine for the football team."

And I'll offer to take from them the horrible accursed object that's causing their pain -for a small fee-. If they remain cursed, repeat.

Honestly, sometimes people are so... people.
 
Jaggy Bunnet said:
I think you are understating somewhat the effect of the floods - picture 7 here suggests it was fairly nasty and a couple of people died.
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It was quite a nasty flood certainly but hardly 'biblical'.

There are regularly worse floods than this elsewhere. It's just stupid that someone discovers a curse, so every bad thing that happened in the last couple of years are blamed on it.

It's a stupid non-story that I can't believe even made it on to the BBC website.

It's that idiot councillor's fault for trying to drum up support from the gullible.
 
Yep. How much do you want to bet that particular councillor is supported by those Christian groups that were originally opposed to the stone? And that Archbishop is a great example of why the Catholic Church created so many enemies...
 
Stevenage 2 Carlisle United 1

From the BBC website: "The visitors looked set to win but Stevenage stunned them with two goals in the last five minutes."

I guess the curse is still working then...:(
 
jmercer said:
And that Archbishop is a great example of why the Catholic Church created so many enemies...
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Catholic? Have I missed something? (Maybe.) The article said the Bishop of Carlisle. Unless it said "the Catholic Bishop of Carlisle" it means the Bishop of Carlisle. We have an established Protestant church over here in Limeyland. You have just heard from our equivalent of Episcopalians. Aren't they interesting?

England is one of the few countries in the world which has a state religion. And it is also, by some accounts, the world's most secular country.
 
Dr Adequate said:
Catholic? Have I missed something? (Maybe.) The article said the Bishop of Carlisle. Unless it said "the Catholic Bishop of Carlisle" it means the Bishop of Carlisle. We have an established Protestant church over here in Limeyland. You have just heard from our equivalent of Episcopalians. Aren't they interesting?

England is one of the few countries in the world which has a state religion. And it is also, by some accounts, the world's most secular country.
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Apparently the curse was originally invoked by the Archbishop of Glasgow in 1525. I think it would have been a Catholic archbishop at that date.
 
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