Curious Why SETI still isn't Receiving Public Funding?

joe1347

Critical Thinker
joe1347
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Since the current administration seems willing to fund just about anything. I wonder why SETI (seach for extra-terrestrial life) still hasn't receiving any public funding for more than a decade - since there has to be a least a few radio astronomers in Republican districts?

If my memory serves me correctly, SETI public funding (~$12M: NASA) was cut off primarily because politicians were having a little too much public fun with NASA and their search for little green men. Hence, NASA pulling the plug on SETI was politically expedient.

I've always thought that this was the reason SETI didn't (and never will) receive public funding. However, upon further thought - couldn't a SETI type radio astronomy effort be easily "hidden" or disguised under a new extremely obscure technical name that never mentions ET's? Alternatively, am I being too policially naive in my thoughts? For example, will evidence of ET's somehow contradict or interfere with the current faith/dogma of the Christian Fundementalists? Hence, any SETI-like public funding is surpressed.

Not that I'm quite yet ready for a tin-foil hat - but a friend just was visiting New Mexico and mentioned that he thought that the Very Large Array (for radio astronomy) had fewer dishes than he remembered from a previous visit. The discussion turned to SETI and the question why the Gov't doesn't fund it.
 
joe1347 said:
Since the current administration seems willing to fund just about anything. I wonder why SETI (seach for extra-terrestrial life) still hasn't receiving any public funding for more than a decade - since there has to be a least a few radio astronomers in Republican districts?

If my memory serves me correctly, SETI public funding (~$12M: NASA) was cut off primarily because politicians were having a little too much public fun with NASA and their search for little green men. Hence, NASA pulling the plug on SETI was politically expedient.

I've always thought that this was the reason SETI didn't (and never will) receive public funding. However, upon further thought - couldn't a SETI type radio astronomy effort be easily "hidden" or disguised under a new extremely obscure technical name that never mentions ET's? Alternatively, am I being too policially naive in my thoughts? For example, will evidence of ET's somehow contradict or interfere with the current faith/dogma of the Christian Fundementalists? Hence, any SETI-like public funding is surpressed.

Not that I'm quite yet ready for a tin-foil hat - but a friend just was visiting New Mexico and mentioned that he thought that the Very Large Array (for radio astronomy) had few dishes than he remembered from a previous visit. The discussion turned to SETI and the question why the Gov't doesn't fund it.
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Perhaps it's because they don't say how long they plan to 'watch the skies' for, and the government don't want to put public cash into a money pit?
 
joe1347 said:
The discussion turned to SETI and the question why the Gov't doesn't fund it.
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I dunno. But I'm hoping no ETs do come to the planet, or anywhere near it, for a while.

That whole "Take us to your leader" thing could get us all killed at the moment, y'know?

"HE'S their elected leader? They CHOSE him? Ready the wide-array field burst, and do not, I repeat, do not set it to 'stun.'"
 
If for no other reason, there's the eminently sensible reason that the project doesn't need public money. There's a whole generation of computer millionaires and billionaires who grew up on Star Trek. If you can't get those guys to pony up a couple bucks for SETI you're just not trying.

Happily, SETI is trying and succeeding. They're doing just fine on their own. Heck, they're building their own mini-array now. Why muck it up with a billion government contracting rules?
 
manny said:
. . .

Happily, SETI is trying and succeeding. They're doing just fine on their own. Heck, they're building their own mini-array now. Why muck it up with a billion government contracting rules?
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Assume that you're refering to the Allen Array in Northern Calif. Agree that you have about one rule/bureaucratic requirement per each dollar of Fed Funding. But, I don't think that "interfering" with private industry or duplicating existing efforts has ever stopped the Feds. I still think that not wanting to be made fools of is "the" primary reason for no Federal SETI-like funding. But maybe I don't know what I'm talking about. Plus, I wouldn't think that it's bad science arguement would hold water since all we're talking about is radio astronomy. Just different types of signals.

As for succeeding - Has it? Or are we using different metrics? Mine is detecting something that can't be explained yet.
 
Succeeding at getting a bunch of rich Trekkers to pony up the money to keep going.

I agree that the prospect of spending money listening for little green men in the face of a budet deficit is probably the thing that caused federal funding to dry up back in '94. It's not much money, but geez that's a tough one. And since the project flourished after federal funding ended there's even less justification to revisit the issue. Imagine being the Congressman who builds up the courage to get past the little green men/deficit thing and says "here's something which is doing just fine on its own; let's give it money."
 
When you can find a way for politicians to get kickbacks from SETI it will get funding its that simple.
 
SETI is funded by aliens from a world where oil is a common and usless resource. They made a killing selling it to Alaskans. After all, when your interstellar vehicles and so forth are powered by cold fusion, what need have you for oil? The bad news is that unknown to NASA and other researchers, these aliens plan to develop this part of the galaxy into a playground for wealthy interstellar travellers. Wait until you see the size of the bulldozer!
 
Well, since pepto brought it up...

"People of Earth, your attention please," a voice said, and it was wonderful. Wonderful perfect quadrophonic sound with distortion levels so low as to make a brave man weep.

"This is Prostetnic Vogon Jeltz of the Galactic Hyperspace Planning Council," the voice continued. "As you will no doubt be aware, the plans for development of the outlying regions of the Galaxy require the building of a hyperspatial express route through your star system, and regrettably your planet is one of those scheduled for demolition. The process will take slightly less that two of your Earth minutes. Thank you."

The PA died away.

Uncomprehending terror settled on the watching people of Earth. The terror moved slowly through the gathered crowds as if they were iron filings on a sheet of board and a magnet was moving beneath them. Panic sprouted again, desperate fleeing panic, but there was nowhere to flee to.

Observing this, the Vogons turned on their PA again. It said:

"There's no point in acting all surprised about it. All the planning charts and demolition orders have been on display in your local planning department on Alpha Centauri for fifty of your Earth years, so you've had plenty of time to lodge any formal complaint and it's far too late to start making a fuss about it now."

The PA fell silent again and its echo drifted off across the land. The huge ships turned slowly in the sky with easy power. On the underside of each a hatchway opened, an empty black space.

By this time somebody somewhere must have manned a radio transmitter, located a wavelength and broadcasted a message back to the Vogon ships, to plead on behalf of the planet. Nobody ever heard what they said, they only heard the reply. The PA slammed back into life again. The voice was annoyed. It said:

"What do you mean you've never been to Alpha Centauri? For heaven's sake mankind, it's only four light years away you know. I'm sorry, but if you can't be bothered to take an interest in local affairs that's your own lookout.

"Energize the demolition beams."

Light poured out into the hatchways.

"I don't know," said the voice on the PA, "apathetic bloody planet, I've no sympathy at all." It cut off.

There was a terrible ghastly silence.

There was a terrible ghastly noise.

There was a terrible ghastly silence.

The Vogon Constructor fleet coasted away into the inky starry void.
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I should have known that the topic would go downhill quickly. But hey, does every speculative discussion have to be about Iraq, Iran, Joe Wilson, Bush, China, Kansas (odd that we now lump Kansas in with Iraq), etc.?
 
The most likely reason SETI doesn't get public funding is because the program, as defined, has no measurable value. The probability of any success whatsoever approaches zero, even if the probability of little green men approached one (which I think it does).

And yet, I to donate my computer time to them. My screensaver is part of the SETI search net. 4819 hours so far, 106 data units completed. Chump-change.
 
I also participate in the SETI distrubuted processing scheme but it just filled my cache with useless rubbish....I delete it regularly.

Here is an example from last night....

gakbweixsvfjsdgchsxhelloearthwecomeinpeacexghslaburgstscsdehdjfdytebdnbcghvedhdgevexcgcvdfnbfgjjfnahsoehfgscvgashatavdbdg

absolutely useless random rubbish....
 
Rob Lister said:
The most likely reason SETI doesn't get public funding is because the program, as defined, has no measurable value. The probability of any success whatsoever approaches zero, even if the probability of little green men approached one (which I think it does).

And yet, I to donate my computer time to them. My screensaver is part of the SETI search net. 4819 hours so far, 106 data units completed. Chump-change.
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1800 data units, over 15,000 hours. Most of those hours, though, were on a PII 266 (~30 hours per data unit) and PIII 450 (~24 hours) running at the same time in a little home network.

Then came the Alienware P IV 3.2 GHz monstrosity, which, if the screensaver were up (i.e. 100% cpu utilization, as opposed to 50% just backgrounded) it could crank thru a data unit in less than 1.5 hours. Nice to see the % changing noticiably while watching it. Like watching grass grow, and seeing it actually move! Took the total from around 260 to over 1800 in about 2 1/2 years, with the other computers not even on anymore.
 
I only have 37 units completed... :(

I just let it chug along when I'm not paying attention, and since I am a laptop user, I don't let my 'puter on when I'm not using it.

The Bush administration doesn't give a toss about that "science stuff" in general. I think that something specific like SETI wouldn't get a snowball in hell chance of getting any significant funding right now. Fortunately, the subject is fascinating enough to attract private money. But I'm sure there are quite a lot of interesting basic science that is being completely ignored by everyone because it isn't as sexy.
 
Orwell said:
I only have 37 units completed... :(

I just let it chug along when I'm not paying attention, and since I am a laptop user, I don't let my 'puter on when I'm not using it.

The Bush administration doesn't give a toss about that "science stuff" in general. I think that something specific like SETI wouldn't get a snowball in hell chance of getting any significant funding right now. Fortunately, the subject is fascinating enough to attract private money. But I'm sure there are quite a lot of interesting basic science that is being completely ignored by everyone because it isn't as sexy.
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For the reasons I and others mentioned, I'm glad no money is dedicated to SETI. It's fun but it is really not profitable in any sense of the word. The time/cash you throw at SETI goes in the garbage. Yet I am proud of my 'units completed'.

Don't turn this into a Bush Bash. It's a decent thread that has value, even if SETI does not.
 
joe1347 said:
...Agree that you have about one rule/bureaucratic requirement per each dollar of Fed Funding....
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Really? As bad as that? Here I’ve been in university research administration since 1969 and I never realized I was being borne down by guvmint red tape. Funny, we’ve always managed to satisfy NASA, NSF, NIH, DoD, DOT, and the U.S. Geological Survey, among others; they keep forking over the bucks, anyway.

The fact is, SETI’s a long shot. If a planet emitting signals comparable to ours were in the galactic vicinity, we wouldn’t be able to detect it – not as yet, anyway. SETI deserves to be funded in order to make it better, i.e., more sensitive and more sophisticated, not in any realistic hope of us being around on the great day when a signal is identified as extraterrestrial. Long centuries may pass before that happens, if it ever does.

I don’t want to think that we’re alone even in our own galactic neighborhood, to say nothing of the universe. (Are WE the best the cosmos can come up with for intelligent life? No, no, get that idea away from me!) But right now we might as well be alone, and we always will be alone if we don’t keep plodding on, sharpening our ears as well as we can. Plodding isn’t glamorous. Maybe we need to reawaken the public to the romance of SETI.
 
Rob Lister said:
For the reasons I and others mentioned, I'm glad no money is dedicated to SETI. It's fun but it is really not profitable in any sense of the word. The time/cash you throw at SETI goes in the garbage. Yet I am proud of my 'units completed'.

Don't turn this into a Bush Bash. It's a decent thread that has value, even if SETI does not.
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I didn't intend to turn the thread into a "Bush bash". I got the impression that the thread also concerned the administration's science spending.
 
Orwell said:
I didn't intend to turn the thread into a "Bush bash". I got the impression that the thread also concerned the administration's science spending.
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Sorry, Orwell, given sackett's post, the thread is very, very ripe for a bush bash, even from a reluctant supporter such as myself. I would rather you take a shot at it than me, as you would gain much pleasure and I would not.
 
Re: Re: Curious Why SETI still isn't Receiving Public Funding?

tkingdoll said:
Perhaps it's because they don't say how long they plan to 'watch the skies' for, and the government don't want to put public cash into a money pit?
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The splendour of a night sky, the grandeur and immensity, puts such questions as "how long" or "how many cents per taxpayer" in perspective. Ordinary human scales don't apply.

I'm not referring to the night sky as viewed in Brimingham, UK, of course. :)
 
SETI doesn't need public funding. It's a perfect example of how well private research works, particularly with the privately-funded Allen Telescope Array being constructed. Government getting into it again would just mess it all up.

Neither Paul Allen, Nathan Myhrvold, any of the other financial investors (or would that be donors?), nor any of the millions of people donating their spare computer runtime to the project are worried about how long it will take, how many cents per taxpayer/donor/whatever it costs, how "profitable" it is, or any of the other concerns brought up here that would certainly be issues with government funding. People want SETI, peopel think SETI is cool, and people are willing to pay for it.

It's the free market in action. Let it work.
 
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