Critical thought 202, finding the Way

[The GM]

Scary movies and books don’t creep me out, but here’s something that did. Allow me to explain.
I’ve struggled recently w/ an undiagnosed illness. It’s been craps-ville for the ole GM of late. Lots of Dr. visits, testing, more testing, a bit of worry thrown in for good measure, etc…I went in to the Doc’s yesterday for yet another blood letting (er…testing) and afterwards met up w/ my dear mother for lunch to discuss what I’ve got going on. I was talking about the good news (no lymphoma, leukemia, cancer, etc..) and the bad news (still don’t know exactly what the issue is, still ache like a mo-fo, tired as hell, etc…) So Mom drops on me that she and her pals had a prayer meeting for me. Some of you know, I grew up in a fundie environment, so this would not be unusual and it doesn’t insult me a bit to know that people are wishing me well and want to see a recovery in my health.
However…
Mom says something really exciting happened. She says that a new lady to the prayer group, someone she had never met before, handed down a prophecy from God for me. The elderly lady, presumably in the voice of God, said the following for me: “ Thus sayeth the Lord. Though I have judged you, I have not forsaken you. You will live and not die so that you may proclaim the good works of the Lord. Thus sayeth the Lord.”
Mom was excited. I was immediately creeped out. I mean my revulsion was to such a level that I put down my fork and stopped eating. So I say, “Mom, don’t you think that Muslims get just as excited when they hear their psychics talk about ‘prophesy’?”
“She’s a prophetess, dear, not a psychic.”
“Semantics, Mom. What about Catholics? Do you suppose they get just as excited? What about Christian Scientists? Native American Shamans? What about every other faith? Do you suppose they believe it just as much?”
She didn’t miss a beat. “No, those things are the occult, religions driven by hate, not love. I know what I saw, and the Lord was powerful amongst us. I know you will pick up your spiritual mantel and lead many people to the Lord.”

I promptly dropped the subject and raised another.
So here’s what I asked myself on the long drive home. If it truly were the Lord that my Mother professes belief in, why did I have an immediate and rather violent emotional reaction? Shouldn’t I be excited, inspired, awed? Also, why would I be judged although not forsaken? Doesn’t judgment come at the end of one’s life? Why does my BS meter go off, why do I immediately give the topic suspicion instead of the benefit of the doubt?
Why would I have such a different reaction to the ‘good news’ than others who would have been no doubt caught alight by the Holy Ghost fever? Why has religion, even as a small child, always been a negative, a harmful thing that gives me the willies?

To further clarify, I am not atheist, so it’s not like I don’t think there could be a universal creator, it’s the actual religion stuff that gives me the heebie jeebies. This religion $#!+ comes between me and my family more than I'd like. Not cool, especially when I would like some nice, non-judgmental support. (sigh)
So it goes.

 

[TragicMonkey]

Some woman you've never met is using your illness to score points for her religion by playing on your mother's emotional state? And set herself up as a "prophetess" to boot? That sounds pretty revulsive to me, too.

It's one thing for people to find meanings in the bad events that affect them, but quite another to interpret meanings in what happens to other people.

 

[tdn]

Wait a minute.

"Thus sayeth the Lord. Though I have judged you, I have not forsaken you. You will live and not die so that you may proclaim the good works of the Lord. Thus sayeth the Lord.”

This is a prophecy? Isn't this just reciting from the Bible? Even if not, how is it more predictive than saying "Oh, stop worrying, you're not going to die"? At best, it's wishful thinking.

At any rate, I hope that evil old science -- or the Good Lord -- or the throwing of chicken bones -- finds you some good news soon.

 

[The GM]

QUOTE]Originally posted by TragicMonkey
Some woman you've never met is using your illness to score points for her religion by playing on your mother's emotional state? And set herself up as a "prophetess" to boot? That sounds pretty revulsive to me, too.

It's one thing for people to find meanings in the bad events that affect them, but quite another to interpret meanings in what happens to other people. [/QUOTE]

Yes! I think that might be part of what turns me off. Another example of prophetess' work in the fundie environment that my mother frequents happened last year. Ma was having chest pains and I was quite worried. "Go to the doctor,' commanded The GM, but nay would mother go because a (different) prophetess told her that the serpent of Satan had cast a curse on her and that an invisible snake was crushing her. The prescribed cure was more prayer. Finally Mom relented and went to the doctor after I went ape $#+ crazy medievil in the middle of a nice family dinner. One week later a bum gall bladder was removed and all was well.
I don't remember church psychics being part of the norm when I was a kid. This seems to be a new phenomena, related to the Rapture, naturally. Anyone else notice a rise in this sort of new agey- fundie cross over? Furthermore, doesn't the Bible say something about no man knowing the future?

 

[Hutch]

Well, you always confound the prophecy and just go ahead and die......

Seriously, I have had my gall bladder out and I don't know how your mother stood it--stones are very painful.

But then again, I never understood the whole prophecy thing, or how some people are supposed to have this "better connection" with God that the rest of us.

Hope things keep working out for you--and your mom doesn't get any more "prophecies" when she has pain.

 

[BillHoyt]

To further clarify, I am not atheist, so it’s not like I don’t think there could be a universal creator, it’s the actual religion stuff that gives me the heebie jeebies. This religion $#!+ comes between me and my family more than I'd like. Not cool, especially when I would like some nice, non-judgmental support. (sigh)
So it goes.

The GM,

I'm very sorry to hear you can't find comfort with your family because of this. I wish I knew some magic for you to correct this problem, but there is none. I can only suggest shoring up your own confidence in reality, and politely, but firmly, rejecting attempts to bend your will to these belief systems.

Many of the people here, I'd wager, have been through exactly this themselves. It is one of the most irritating things about living in a world so filled with credophiles. It is lonely at times and, at times, tempting to find solace suckling at woo's teats. As you know, though, there's precious little nourishment there.

Stick to your guns. Stick around here. Stick with your Doctors and ask informed questions to get the best diagnosis and care possible.

 

[Soapy Sam]

"Doesn’t judgment come at the end of one’s life? "

What you trying to say here, GM?

(Sorry, GM. You can't go around giving cheap comics an opening like that.)
You are understandably concerned about your health. Sounds post viral to me, (RV diagnosis from half a world away, based on no medical knowledge whatever.)

Here's my prophecy. You will get over this. You will be killed many years from now, in bed, by the husband of the woman you are in bed with. He will use a 44 magnum and will be shaking so hard , he will shoot his own right foot off.

Now who you gonna believe? Some chum o' yer mum or Psychic pSoapy pSam?

I hope you can put this behind you soon.

 

[The GM]

"Doesn’t judgment come at the end of one’s life? "

What you trying to say here, GM?

(Sorry, GM. You can't go around giving cheap comics an opening like that.)
You are understandably concerned about your health. Sounds post viral to me, (RV diagnosis from half a world away, based on no medical knowledge whatever.)

Here's my prophecy. You will get over this. You will be killed many years from now, in bed, by the husband of the woman you are in bed with. He will use a 44 magnum and will be shaking so hard , he will shoot his own right foot off.

Now who you gonna believe? Some chum o' yer mum or Psychic pSoapy pSam?

I hope you can put this behind you soon.

(laughs)
Lesbianism is a strict no-no in the fundie church. By your prediction, I'll burn forever!

Although...what a hell of a way to go! What would the obit say?!? (snerk)
Thanks everyone for your well wishes.

 

[Dragonrock]

Although...what a hell of a way to go! What would the obit say?!? (snerk)
Thanks everyone for your well wishes.

Considering that in this prediction you were shot at close range with a very high powered pistol, I'd assume that the obit would say that you were sopped up in a sponge and poured into a grave.



ps. Good luck, Get better, be happy, post more

 

[Filip Sandor]

Scary movies and books don’t creep me out, but here’s something that did. Allow me to explain.
I’ve struggled recently w/ an undiagnosed illness. It’s been craps-ville for the ole GM of late. Lots of Dr. visits, testing, more testing, a bit of worry thrown in for good measure, etc…I went in to the Doc’s yesterday for yet another blood letting (er…testing) and afterwards met up w/ my dear mother for lunch to discuss what I’ve got going on. I was talking about the good news (no lymphoma, leukemia, cancer, etc..) and the bad news (still don’t know exactly what the issue is, still ache like a mo-fo, tired as hell, etc…) So Mom drops on me that she and her pals had a prayer meeting for me. Some of you know, I grew up in a fundie environment, so this would not be unusual and it doesn’t insult me a bit to know that people are wishing me well and want to see a recovery in my health.
However…
Mom says something really exciting happened. She says that a new lady to the prayer group, someone she had never met before, handed down a prophecy from God for me. The elderly lady, presumably in the voice of God, said the following for me: “ Thus sayeth the Lord. Though I have judged you, I have not forsaken you. You will live and not die so that you may proclaim the good works of the Lord. Thus sayeth the Lord.”
Mom was excited. I was immediately creeped out. I mean my revulsion was to such a level that I put down my fork and stopped eating. So I say, “Mom, don’t you think that Muslims get just as excited when they hear their psychics talk about ‘prophesy’?”
“She’s a prophetess, dear, not a psychic.”
“Semantics, Mom. What about Catholics? Do you suppose they get just as excited? What about Christian Scientists? Native American Shamans? What about every other faith? Do you suppose they believe it just as much?”
She didn’t miss a beat. “No, those things are the occult, religions driven by hate, not love. I know what I saw, and the Lord was powerful amongst us. I know you will pick up your spiritual mantel and lead many people to the Lord.”

I promptly dropped the subject and raised another.
So here’s what I asked myself on the long drive home. If it truly were the Lord that my Mother professes belief in, why did I have an immediate and rather violent emotional reaction? Shouldn’t I be excited, inspired, awed? Also, why would I be judged although not forsaken? Doesn’t judgment come at the end of one’s life? Why does my BS meter go off, why do I immediately give the topic suspicion instead of the benefit of the doubt?
Why would I have such a different reaction to the ‘good news’ than others who would have been no doubt caught alight by the Holy Ghost fever? Why has religion, even as a small child, always been a negative, a harmful thing that gives me the willies?

To further clarify, I am not atheist, so it’s not like I don’t think there could be a universal creator, it’s the actual religion stuff that gives me the heebie jeebies. This religion $#!+ comes between me and my family more than I'd like. Not cool, especially when I would like some nice, non-judgmental support. (sigh)
So it goes.

GM,

It doesn't sound like your real intentions, to share your concerns with your mother were fulfilled, at least not to your personal satisfaction since you dropped the subject with her after what she told you about what that woman said.

I think the source of your revulsive feelings against what you heard are more internal than anything. It's likely that your fear and curiousity made you more open to your mother's thoughts, on a more personal level than usual. Since, what you are going through is also a personal experience for your mother, it is probably tied into her faith in God so it is not surprising that what your mother heard moved her, but her faith is her's and she interprets it differently than you and this was naturally emotionally disturbing. I wouldn't take it as anything too 'deep' myself, but of course, that's for you to decide. I suggest you feed your curiosity, but use your judgement. Pay close attention to your surroundings as well as your own thoughts and watch how they mix together, you'll figure some new things out here and there, which might help you figure some other things out.. in some other places.

Just my advice, hope it helps you.

 

[The GM]

Re: Re: Critical thought 202, finding the Way

GM,
Just my advice, hope it helps you.

Yeah, I had thought along these lines too. To be fair, I love me mum, and she loves me. She's my cheerleader when I need one, it's just when she gift wraps it in church psychic readings and a good measure of scripture that I back off. I trust her, I do not trust those who she puts *her* trust in. See?

Anyhoo, thanks for the kind words everyone. I'm still mulling all of this over, trying to come to the conclusion that's right for me.

 

[Gulliamo]

my two cents

I have had similar family response to a different problem.

When I was going through a person crisis between myself and the military my good mum insisted that it was "God's will for me to go and perform God's duty" but she would pray, perform penance and do other ridicules things in order to sway the will of god. When, through my own efforts, I did not go to the sandbox she took full credit for it.

I must admit, as a newly christened atheist, that during times of hardship it can be very difficult not to slip back. When a situation is totally out of your control, like a disease or deployment, one can not help but feel completely powerless. It is times like these that the "god appeal" is strongest. As a "critical thinker" one must be disciplined enough to step back and say, "What are my assets? How can I use these to overcome my problem? Whether I overcome my problem or not what can I do to prepare for the outcome?" Doing this often gives one that reclusive "peace of mind" that many are only able to achieve through prayer or other woo woo-isms.

I will start a separate thread when I return from training on Monday asking what others do to achieve the “peace of mind” often associated with prayer.