Country Club Prisons
- Thread starter Tmy
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Suddenly
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Tmy said:
There are minimmum security prisons, where non-violent offenders are held. Very little security, more like a school campus than a prison.
Since most white-collar criminals are non violent, they usually wind up there. Not really like a country club. It still stinks, but there aren't quite as many indignities and dangers for the inmates.
Mr Manifesto
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Mind you, they still aren't a picnic. Not if they're like the ones in Aus.
My uncle did a couple of years for tax fraud (a cool 1 mil- and no sympathy from me! "Why didn't you visit?" "Because you're a f***ing crook!"). He had to come up with $50 a week or the local "Mr Big" would beat the crap out of him.
Not to say it's as bad as max security. No contest there. Just saying it's not an easy ride.
My uncle did a couple of years for tax fraud (a cool 1 mil- and no sympathy from me! "Why didn't you visit?" "Because you're a f***ing crook!"). He had to come up with $50 a week or the local "Mr Big" would beat the crap out of him.
Not to say it's as bad as max security. No contest there. Just saying it's not an easy ride.
Tmy said:
Most minimum security prisons are on Military bases. We had one at Eglin AFB when I was stationed there. Since the base itself was secure, you would often see prisoners away from the prison unsupervised, usually on work details or attending college courses. Of course they never tried to escape, because if they were caught it would mean maximum security, where the real bad guys go.
Suddenly
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Tmy said:
In my state it is largely a function of the time you have left and the beds available. Other states vary. Also, here it is largely up to the Division of Corrections, they do a battery of tests to help determine risk, factor in the offense and the time to be served, and off you go. Events can result in re-classification.
Our minimmum security facility is these days swamped with 3rd offense DUI convicts, which is a felony carrying a 1-3 year sentence, which is functionally 18 months.
AmateurScientist
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Tmy said:
No, not in the sense that you hear this term. It's a political term, used by unscrupulous politicians who are posturing and trying to one up their opponents by being tougher on crime than they are.
I suppose we might call it a strawman argument. "Yeah, my opponent is soft on crime. He's all for letting out child molestors or for sending them to country club prisons where they get to play tennis and swim and get back rubs all day at the taxpayers' expense. Well, I'm not going to let them spend your tax dollars like that anymore."
It's BS. Prisons are miserable places to be in or to visit.
AS
Mr Manifesto
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roger said:
This dude's proven several times he can't read my posts. He couldn't even spell 'cretin' properly for his handle.
Mr Manifesto
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Tony said:
I don't think you have the right to rip the state off for a million dollars. I think one of my uncle's lawyers would have noticed if you did.
Sorry to disabuse you, but yes, there are such things as "country club prisons." For professional reasons, I've visited them, and seen this stuff. It's rampant. College courses in regular classroom settings, the latest computers, well-stocked libraries and law libraries, stepper aerobics machines with workout videos, indoor and outdoor gyms that would be the envy of many colleges, in-cell cable TV, communal movie nights, music rooms filled with rock band instruments, visiting celebrity entertainers, buildings set aside for "conjugal visits" (so that they can knock up their girlfriends, and provide the taxpayers with more mouths to feed), free medical, dental, and psychiatric care--even intramural sports teams travelling prison to prison.
I've seen it all, and even had prison adminstrators brag about it to me, just to prove that they aren't really bad guys running brutal hell-holes. Which is an understatement. That stuff went out with Jimmy Cagney movies.
"Country clubs" are notoriously common in the federal prison system, but many states also have them. It's part of the baby-sitting that prison administrators love to provide inmates to pacify them: since they can't enforce discipline anymore with the "stick," they use the "carrot" approach, threatening only to deprive those who act up of a loss of all these cushy perks.
And no, it's not just "non-violent offenders" in these places. How about murderers, rapists, armed robbers, child molesters, etc.? Almost all these guys, well prior to parole or other release, are cycled down from maximum through medium to minimum security lockups, and in the latter you often find a true campus atmosphere, all provided by their taxpaying victims. Even in the max places with the big bad reps, such as Attica or Sing Sing, you'll find amenities for thugs that'll blow your mind. At Sing Sing there's an entire floor with separate rooms devoted to all the clubs and special interest groups for the inmates, including the racial and ethnic subgroups.
I suggest that rather than simply buy into the propaganda of all the movies or absurd TV shows like "Oz," which show animalistic prison conditions, that you folks do a little first-hand looking, as I have. You'll then wonder whether they keep the walls up to keep inmates in...or to prevent the prying eyes of taxpayers from seeing inside to find out what's really going on.
I've seen it all, and even had prison adminstrators brag about it to me, just to prove that they aren't really bad guys running brutal hell-holes. Which is an understatement. That stuff went out with Jimmy Cagney movies.
"Country clubs" are notoriously common in the federal prison system, but many states also have them. It's part of the baby-sitting that prison administrators love to provide inmates to pacify them: since they can't enforce discipline anymore with the "stick," they use the "carrot" approach, threatening only to deprive those who act up of a loss of all these cushy perks.
And no, it's not just "non-violent offenders" in these places. How about murderers, rapists, armed robbers, child molesters, etc.? Almost all these guys, well prior to parole or other release, are cycled down from maximum through medium to minimum security lockups, and in the latter you often find a true campus atmosphere, all provided by their taxpaying victims. Even in the max places with the big bad reps, such as Attica or Sing Sing, you'll find amenities for thugs that'll blow your mind. At Sing Sing there's an entire floor with separate rooms devoted to all the clubs and special interest groups for the inmates, including the racial and ethnic subgroups.
I suggest that rather than simply buy into the propaganda of all the movies or absurd TV shows like "Oz," which show animalistic prison conditions, that you folks do a little first-hand looking, as I have. You'll then wonder whether they keep the walls up to keep inmates in...or to prevent the prying eyes of taxpayers from seeing inside to find out what's really going on.
AmateurScientist
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Avatar,
Save it. I've been to prisons and plenty of jails too. I've never seen anything remotely resembling what you describe.
I call BS on you.
AS
Save it. I've been to prisons and plenty of jails too. I've never seen anything remotely resembling what you describe.
I call BS on you.
AS
Suddenly
Unregistered
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AmateurScientist said:
(Nods head)
Ah yes... "Club Fed".
I remember when Michael Milken was up for parole, a joke circulated about possible reasons why he might be denied, including such things as:
- Poor tipper
- Doesn't replace divots
- Backhand still needs work
Seriously, though, the amenities at federal prison camp were exaggerated even 10 or 15 years ago. Now, they've pretty much vanished.
I remember when Michael Milken was up for parole, a joke circulated about possible reasons why he might be denied, including such things as:
- Poor tipper
- Doesn't replace divots
- Backhand still needs work
Seriously, though, the amenities at federal prison camp were exaggerated even 10 or 15 years ago. Now, they've pretty much vanished.
a_unique_person
Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning
AmateurScientist said:
Not the first time he's tried it.
Folks, we're not arguing opinions or philosophy here, but simple facts. Just curious: who among you have visited the following:
In New York: the maximum security prisons at Attica, Sullivan, Sing Sing, and (for women) Bedford Hills. In Pennsylvania: the old max in downtown Pittsburgh, and the minimum security Mercer Regional Correctional Facility. In Arizona: the state prison complex near Phoenix.
I have--as I said, for professional reasons. I saw all the stuff I mentioned, have taped interviews with the administrators and staff, plus a boxload of research and supporting materials detailing it all. Mr. "Amateur Scientist" didn't specify the locations or details of his (alleged) visits; but I'm talking about state and federal "correctional facilities" (can't call 'em "prisons"), not crappy local jails. And, FYI, I had prison superintendents (can't call 'em "wardens"), "corrections officers" (can't call 'em "guards"), and in one case, the former Arizona state corrections commissioner as my private tour guides. They were eager to show off all this stuff, precisely in order to help disabuse the public of the movie image that they were brutes running hellholes.
For any among you with the honesty and ambition, check out Big Mean Attica, and note those three little white buildings that the "corrections officers" refer to contemptuously as "the hotel"--because they're devoted to the conjugal visits. Or visit the yard at the modern max prison of Sullivan, in Fallsburg, NY, where they even erected TVs up on raised platforms outdoors, just so that the inmates wouldn't miss the daily Soaps while they play basketball and bench press barbells. Or wander inside, over to the inmate music room, crammed with electric guitars, keyboards, amps, and drums.
I could go on and on, but why bother? Amazing how you can call me a liar, when we all know damned well that you haven't been to any of these joints, and are clearly talking through your hats. But then, it appears that your priority is to remain smug and secure in your ideologically-driven prejudices, which might become shaken by confrontation with a few inconvenient facts. Continuation of a civil discussion presupposes factors I've not yet found in evidence here.
Given the lifelong devotion of this site's founder to reason and pursuit of unvarnished truth, I recently came here naively expecting the same from participants. Time to look elsewhere.
In New York: the maximum security prisons at Attica, Sullivan, Sing Sing, and (for women) Bedford Hills. In Pennsylvania: the old max in downtown Pittsburgh, and the minimum security Mercer Regional Correctional Facility. In Arizona: the state prison complex near Phoenix.
I have--as I said, for professional reasons. I saw all the stuff I mentioned, have taped interviews with the administrators and staff, plus a boxload of research and supporting materials detailing it all. Mr. "Amateur Scientist" didn't specify the locations or details of his (alleged) visits; but I'm talking about state and federal "correctional facilities" (can't call 'em "prisons"), not crappy local jails. And, FYI, I had prison superintendents (can't call 'em "wardens"), "corrections officers" (can't call 'em "guards"), and in one case, the former Arizona state corrections commissioner as my private tour guides. They were eager to show off all this stuff, precisely in order to help disabuse the public of the movie image that they were brutes running hellholes.
For any among you with the honesty and ambition, check out Big Mean Attica, and note those three little white buildings that the "corrections officers" refer to contemptuously as "the hotel"--because they're devoted to the conjugal visits. Or visit the yard at the modern max prison of Sullivan, in Fallsburg, NY, where they even erected TVs up on raised platforms outdoors, just so that the inmates wouldn't miss the daily Soaps while they play basketball and bench press barbells. Or wander inside, over to the inmate music room, crammed with electric guitars, keyboards, amps, and drums.
I could go on and on, but why bother? Amazing how you can call me a liar, when we all know damned well that you haven't been to any of these joints, and are clearly talking through your hats. But then, it appears that your priority is to remain smug and secure in your ideologically-driven prejudices, which might become shaken by confrontation with a few inconvenient facts. Continuation of a civil discussion presupposes factors I've not yet found in evidence here.
Given the lifelong devotion of this site's founder to reason and pursuit of unvarnished truth, I recently came here naively expecting the same from participants. Time to look elsewhere.
EdipisReks
Custom Title
haven't you guys seen Office Space? in minimum security prison, you are usually ok if you beat someone up the first day or become someones bitch.
p.s. i thought that Father/Uncles were a Tennessee thing (i was born in Tennessee, so i can say that
)
p.s. i thought that Father/Uncles were a Tennessee thing (i was born in Tennessee, so i can say that
)