Complaints Dept: Connie Sonne MDC

weirdl

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Sad to say I found the Connie Sonne Million Dollar Challenge flawed. I'm sure the JREF didn't cheat. However this test was so sloppy, I'm embarrassed I ever cited the MDC in an argument.

The JREF ignored its written standards without explanation.
Here's the description of the MDC from the virtual pages of Swift:
The JREF does not involve itself in the testing procedure, other than helping to design the protocol and approving the conditions under which a test will take place. All tests are designed with the participation and approval of the applicant. In most cases, the applicant will be asked to perform a relatively simple preliminary test of the claim, which if successful, will be followed by the formal test. Preliminary tests are usually conducted by associates of the JREF at the site where the applicant lives. Upon success in the preliminary testing process, the "applicant" becomes a "claimant."
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The above paragraph is an admirable declaration as to how fair and independent of the MDC would be - independent of the JREF which would only advise and approve.
But that not the way it went down with the Connie Sonne test.

In the Connie Sonne test the JREF did indeed involve itself in the testing procedure. The test was designed, set-up, performed, recorded, and defended by the JREF. Judge, jury, and executioner.
The test was not performed close to where the applicant lives. She lives in Denmark. The test was in Las Vegas.
This preliminary test was not "relatively simple".

Saying one thing and doing another without explanation does not inspire confidence.
 
please post documents

The JREF failed to post the relevant documents.
Here's what I would like to see posted:
  1. Connie Sonne's MDC application
  2. the subsequent agreement JREF had her sign
  3. the affidavit from the academic or a least that academic's name
  4. links to the news stories about her powers

I'm sure thaw absence of these documents is simple negligence. However, I suspect they contain information that contradicts the JREF's narrative
 
the JREF narrative

The JREF narrative is that Connie Sonne is a "dowser" with a media presence and that she designed her own test.
Here are quotes from Swift:
Failed challenge claimant Connie Sonne had oodles of press coverage for her abilities as a psychic.
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Please present the oodles. I could only locate one short write up. It didn't attest to any psychic powers. It never mentioned dowsing. It did describe a person willing to go to enormous lengths (and to Central America) to obey the voices in her head.
I don't think Ms. Sonne actually qualified for the challenge. The article certainly was not about the ability being tested.
 
more narrative

Connie Sonne had designed the parameters for her own test. She chose to dowse for the contents of double-enveloped playing cards on stage with the supervision of famous skeptic and mentalist, Banachek.
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Not really.
Connie Sonnie included a complete test in her application. It didn't use playing cards, envelops, or a stage. The JREF scrapped it and presented her with their double-enveloped protocol. This existence of the original protocol was never mentioned by the JREF. I have no doubt Ms. Sonne agreed to the changes, but she clearly chose the test she herself designed.
Here is the original protocol:

1. I need 10 pieces of cardboards, where you have written numbers from 1-10 , one number on each piece. You put them on the table, outside my place, with the backside up, so I cant see the numbers. Mix the cards before you put them on the table. Name numbers and I will find them with my pendulum.

2. I need at least 10 persons around a big table, where I am allowed to write with a chalk on it. I also need the hole group to write down their firstnames on seperate pieces of cardboards, put them on the table outsid my place in a horseshoeshape. I will now, with my pendulum pint out the name first andthen the person.

3. You can ask me some questions, one per person. You must ask it, so I can answer it with yes or no. It must be a question, that only the person who will ask know. For example...my favorite t-shirt...is it black?..... or is my dog`s name Fido and so on.

4. I will write the alphabet, in a horseshoeshape on the table, also the numbers. "they" will write something for you...a message, and I can also point out some of you, who can try.
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I have no doubt Connie Sonne agreed to the JREF 's test. Implying that she chose it ,when she obviously actually chose the test she submitted, is dishonest. Especially since Ms. Sonne's application wasn't posted and the JREF forgot to tell anyone about it.

Connie Sonne claimed she could dowse for upside-down pieces of cardboard on which letters, numbers or names had just been written in front of ten people. The JREF disproved this by showing she couldn't dowse for machine-printed playing cards inside nested envelops in front of hundreds of skeptics. Orchestrated by a magician.

I find Ms. Sonne's protocol more elegant and undoubtably more entertaining than the JREF's.

The reason I have no doubt that Connie Sonne agreed to the JREF's replacement protocol is the voices in her head told Connie Sonne to trust the JREF and do whatever they said. They were helping her save the world. As she made clear in her application.
She didn't even try the JREF's protocol.

I also object to JREF labeling Ms. Sonne as "Connie Sonne, dowser". It makes her sound like a more credible candidate for the MDC than she actually was.
When I think of a dowser, it's a person you pay to find water. At the very least I imagine a fortune teller. Connie Sonne dowsed with a crystal for her parents. More like a ouija board.
 
More bad ideas credibility-wise.

The JREF didn't allow Ms. Sonne a camera. Seriously.
The JREF put a guard on Ms. Sonne before the test, controlling what she was allowed to see.
The test was run by Banachek, a magician whose main claim to fame (according to the splash page of his own website) is that he cheated official paranormal tests for two years.


My biggest objection is to the JREF encouraging its members to attack Ms. Sonne.
The voices in Ms. Sonne's head tell her to trust the JREF implicitly, she's courageous.
The voices in Ms. Sonne's head tell her to the JREF cheated, she's sad.
That's what's sad.
 
weirdl said:
The JREF didn't allow Ms. Sonne a camera. Seriously.
The JREF put a guard on Ms. Sonne before the test, controlling what she was allowed to see.
The test was run by Banachek, a magician whose main claim to fame (according to the splash page of his own website) is that he cheated official paranormal tests for two years.


My biggest objection is to the JREF encouraging its members to attack Ms. Sonne.
The voices in Ms. Sonne's head tell her to trust the JREF implicitly, she's courageous.
The voices in Ms. Sonne's head tell her to the JREF cheated, she's sad.
That's what's sad.
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How many more posts have you got? I'd hate for a response to interrupt your running commentary.
 
thanks for the ad hominin attacks

I figured that would be the only response.
I am debunkerina from the Swift comments, obviously. Just because I repeated my complaints doesn't make them less valid. I rewrote them on the MDC forum as it seemed the most appropriate place.
Yes, Csarcasm I did read that thread. I didn't find any answers to my questions there. Could you please be little more specific.
Please tell me what's wrong with my complaints instead of what's wrong with me. I won't argue that there's plenty wrong with me.
 
weirdl said:
I figured that would be the only response.
I am debunkerina from the Swift comments, obviously. Just because I repeated my complaints doesn't make them less valid. I rewrote them on the MDC forum as it seemed the most appropriate place.
Yes, Csarcasm I did read that thread. I didn't find any answers to my questions there. Could you please be little more specific.
Please tell me what's wrong with my complaints instead of what's wrong with me. I won't argue that there's plenty wrong with me.
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Well, for one, CS did agree to the protocol that was used.

End of complaint.
 
weirdl said:
The JREF didn't allow Ms. Sonne a camera. Seriously.
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Any technical device could be used for foul play; altering it so the voice or button clicks can be heard in an in-ear device or felt through body taps.

weirdl said:
The JREF put a guard on Ms. Sonne before the test, controlling what she was allowed to see.
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Naturally. I claim no such powers but I bet I could increase my chances greatly by having unrestricted access.

weirdl said:
The test was run by Banachek, a magician whose main claim to fame (according to the splash page of his own website) is that he cheated official paranormal tests for two years.
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Which is a good choice, as he would, like me, see all opportunities for cheating and therefore catch them.



weirdl said:
My biggest objection is to the JREF encouraging its members to attack Ms. Sonne.
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Can you prove this?


weirdl said:
The voices in Ms. Sonne's head tell her to trust the JREF implicitly, she's courageous.
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Trusting is not courageous, it is... trusting.

weirdl said:
The voices in Ms. Sonne's head tell her to the JREF cheated, she's sad.
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Can she prove it? I have scoured the net, read her .dk site and have not found proof. Just a conveying of the feeling that 'it is not fair that I lost'.


weirdl said:
That's what's sad.
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That is your opinion. And although it may seem hard, fact of the matter is that she did not succeed, and the voices did not tell her to speak up against injustice at the 'moment supreme'.
 
weirdl said:
The JREF failed to post the relevant documents.
Here's what I would like to see posted:
  1. Connie Sonne's MDC application
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If you've spent time on the forums, you know that applications typically go through revisions based on input from the forums and the JREF directly. There would likely be several versions of this, with the final one having the test as administered whether Connie designed it herself, with the help of the forum or JREF, or if the final test was suggested to her completely by the organization.

Read any MDC thread. Almost all applicants originally submit a test protocol that is not sufficient to the aims of the test. It is not uncommon for a test that has been worked out for a previous similar claim to be suggested by the boards or JREF.

You claim that the test did not test the same ability as her original application. Her communication with the JREF included several claims, and the organization and posters here helped steer her to one that was easier to test and measure than ""they" will write something for you...a message,"

The requirements are that the test be self evident, that it pass a certain standard of odds, and it be set up in such a way that success through non paranormal methods is as close to impossible as can be/

weirdl said:
  1. the subsequent agreement JREF had her sign
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Connie herself does not claim a contract was violated. You yourself haven't made that claim, nor have any reason to.

weirdl said:
  1. the affidavit from the academic or a least that academic's name
  2. links to the news stories about her powers
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Both of these requirements serve only to spare the JREF from wasting its time on every random crackpot. Either could easily be waved at the discretion of the JREF without effecting the test itself in any way.

weirdl said:
I'm sure thaw absence of these documents is simple negligence. However, I suspect they contain information that contradicts the JREF's narrative
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Why?
 
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weirdl said:
My biggest objection is to the JREF encouraging its members to attack Ms. Sonne.
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Where?!?
weirdl said:
The voices in Ms. Sonne's head tell her to trust the JREF implicitly, she's courageous.
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Yes, because it takes someone a lot of courage to waste less than 20 minutes to try and grab $1,000,000 with absolutely nothing to loose.

weirdl said:
The voices in Ms. Sonne's head tell her to the JREF cheated, she's sad.
That's what's sad.
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Pathetic. If she thinks the JREF cheated, there's a simple thing she can do to prove it. Just take the test again. Even if she doesn't trust the JREF, she should have no problem contacting any news organizations and talk to them about making an expose about how corupted the JREF is. They'll just replicate the test cheating-free and voila.

Does she have plans of doing this? I'll bet on "NO".
 
Sock Puppet Theater

So we have weirdl who admits they are debunkerina saying exactly the same things C/S whined about, I know you're not a sock puppet but I wonder how many Connie has? Why are you posting the same thing from a different account (I thought multiple accounts was a JREF no,no?). Posting Spamming the same thing under multiple accounts on the JREF could be seen as a feeble attempt to generate a buzz to defend the indefensible.

The "voices" in Sonne's head didn't tell her the MDC challenge was going to be "rigged", they can't give her winning lottery numbers and they can't even convince her crying foul after the fact is a waste of time. Where is Maddie McCann Connie, it is well past September and I haven't heard any revelations? You have much more important things to do than moan about your lack of powers being exposed by skeptics. If you had a problem with the protocols you should have made them known BEFORE you took the test. How could a mere illusionist overwhelm Sonne's "amazing powers from beyond" why didn't the "voices" tell her exactly how she was being "cheated" so she could expose it live? I'm sorry Connie but real physic powers aren't going to be affected by humans how do you cheat against the supernatural?

http://skepticblog.org/2009/08/15/connies-maddie-madness/

Connie if you are reading this :rolleyes: I know a Google search of your name must be depressing after you failed the challenge but you're not going to change your webpression until you demonstrate your amazing powers in a substantial manner. Why not dowse up some hidden treasure if the "voices" are reluctant to help offer to donate it to their favorite charity. Or dowse up winning lottery numbers every month for the next year and publicize your winnings in the media. Attacking your failure only brings more attention to it.

http://skepticblog.org/2009/07/13/connies-conundrums/

I don't know if this has been suggested before but I think lamentations directed at the MDC should have their own thread. The first title that comes to mind is "Wailing and Gnashing of Teeth" but I suppose "Complaint Dept" would be more diplomatic.
 
well JREF does what ever want.. follow rules.. create new ones. or JUST IGNORE everyone.. as they pleased.. I make 6 month soon to hear anything from them.. as reply to mycomplain and inquiry..
 
pavel_do said:
well JREF does what ever want.. follow rules.. create new ones. or JUST IGNORE everyone.. as they pleased..
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Evidence, please.

I make 6 month soon to hear anything from them.. as reply to mycomplain and inquiry..
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First, this is not support for your first statement. And as for your complaint, that was you complaining that the JREF closed your file after you told them to close your file, and that was after you jerking the JREF staff around for a year or two instead of converging on a claim and a protocol.

Connie Sonne, on the other hand, did make a definite testable claim. Connie Sonne did negotiate in good faith to reach an acceptable protocol. Connie Soone did allow the test to be conducted before an audience of skeptics. Although she did later rationalize her failure under test at the expense of the JREF, I don't see from any of that how you establish a basis for the bogus claims you made in your post I quoted.
 
weirdl said:
The JREF didn't allow Ms. Sonne a camera. Seriously.
The JREF put a guard on Ms. Sonne before the test, controlling what she was allowed to see.
The test was run by Banachek, a magician whose main claim to fame (according to the splash page of his own website) is that he cheated official paranormal tests for two years.


My biggest objection is to the JREF encouraging its members to attack Ms. Sonne.
The voices in Ms. Sonne's head tell her to trust the JREF implicitly, she's courageous.
The voices in Ms. Sonne's head tell her to the JREF cheated, she's sad.
That's what's sad.
Click to expand...

Wait, the voices in her head told “her to trust the JREF implicitly”, then told her “the JREF cheated”? I surmise these were the same voices telling her that she (or they) had the ability to find things with her “pendulum”. I also surmise that these same voices should have been guiding her during the test and yet were so easily fooled by those contemptibly mere mortal JREF charlatans’ chicanery. Obviously, the ones she really can’t trust are those dang voices in her head.
 
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