Cleon
King of the Pod People
This is why I can't take Forbes magazine remotely seriously.
They're evaluating Castro's personal wealth based on money generated by state-owned companies. Then it rhetorically wonders why so many in Cuba are on rations. Well, because it's state wealth, you have to take the entire economy into the equation. It's all state-owned. The money that's generated by these companies goes to the state, which then spends it on things like roads, hospitals, schools, food, appliances, the armed forces, what have you. It's a socialist frikkin' country. Sure, Castro lives a good deal better than your average Cuban, but equating state companies with Castro's personal wealth simply reflects a poor understanding of Cuban economy.
They're evaluating Castro's personal wealth based on money generated by state-owned companies. Then it rhetorically wonders why so many in Cuba are on rations. Well, because it's state wealth, you have to take the entire economy into the equation. It's all state-owned. The money that's generated by these companies goes to the state, which then spends it on things like roads, hospitals, schools, food, appliances, the armed forces, what have you. It's a socialist frikkin' country. Sure, Castro lives a good deal better than your average Cuban, but equating state companies with Castro's personal wealth simply reflects a poor understanding of Cuban economy.
Beerina
Sarcastic Conqueror of Notions
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So, to sum up:
1. Castro de facto owns everything
2. He has all the money he needs
3. He has all the power anyone could wish for
Sounds like lock, stock, and barrel ownership to me.
And all he has to do is wear a silly green commoner's military suit to placate the masses on trips from his luxury palaces? Sounds like Forbes has this one nailed, if you ask me.
1. Castro de facto owns everything
2. He has all the money he needs
3. He has all the power anyone could wish for
Sounds like lock, stock, and barrel ownership to me.
And all he has to do is wear a silly green commoner's military suit to placate the masses on trips from his luxury palaces? Sounds like Forbes has this one nailed, if you ask me.
rikzilla
Ninja wave: Atomic fire-breath ninja
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BPSCG said:
Because the "Cuban Street" loves him and wants him to be happy and wealthy! They love the Leader! Just ask them, they'll tell you!
-z
(Note; some of the below links are kind of gross.)
No one is turned away from the Havana Hospital!!
Children are Cuba's national treasure!
The Leader loves the elderly too
aerocontrols
Illuminator
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Cleon said:
I think that your statement would be more properly written as
Sure, Castro lives a good deal better than any other Cuban...
Beerina said:
Well, to be fair, I doubt Castro gets to keep it when he retires. The problem is that he doesn't appear to want to retire soon.
Bush de facto owns a rather expensive white colored house (the security system alone!) in Washington DC at the moment and has a significant hand in how the entire national budget is spent, but there is a pretty good chance he'll give it up willingly in 2009. Until then though, I can see how one could claim he "de facto" has quite a bit of wealth.
I'll stop splitting hairs now.
aerocontrols
Illuminator
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Furious said:
I would bet that he gets to keep it until he's dead. At which time, officially, he plans to give it to his little brother. Or so I am told.
Seems like any other rich dude, to me.
aerocontrols[/i] [B]I would bet that he gets to keep it until he's dead. At which time said:
Agreed, Bush "owning" the white house is ridiculous. But try explaining to someone new the U.S. why Bush can't do anything he pleases with it.
Cleon and I are simply pointing out that Forbes makes the same mistake with Castro. The wealth they are listing is owned by the Cuban state (unless they can prove its in a bank account with Fidel's name on it). While Castro completely dominates the Cuban state in a way that is incomparable to the control Bush has over the U.S.'s publicly owned wealth, that doesn't mean Castro owns it.
I'm not naive enough to think Castro would retreat to a life of poverty if he hypothetically retired, but I sincerely doubt he'd be collecting state owned revenue in the volume stated by Forbes.
L'état, c'est moi.Furious said:
What do you think would happen to anyone who went up to one of the Mercedes-Benzes that Castro uses and tried to claim it as his own?
Castro owns all that stuff. He stole it, he uses it, and he can sell it as he pleases or give it to whoever he wants on his death. All he lacks is a property deed, which, I am sure, he could have made up any time he wants.
But try explaining to someone new the U.S. why Bush can't do anything he pleases with it.
Well, that's just the difference, isn't it? Bush CANNOT do anything he damn well pleases even in the actual white house (let alone the budget, government corporations, etc.) and most definitely cannot use them for personal gain, while Castro CAN do anything he damn well pleases in the companies he controls, including using them for personal gain.
That's why Castro IS a de facto owner of those companies and Bush IS NOT the de facto owner of the White House; being able to do what you wish with something is the definition of what "ownership" IS.
Well, that's just the difference, isn't it? Bush CANNOT do anything he damn well pleases even in the actual white house (let alone the budget, government corporations, etc.) and most definitely cannot use them for personal gain, while Castro CAN do anything he damn well pleases in the companies he controls, including using them for personal gain.
That's why Castro IS a de facto owner of those companies and Bush IS NOT the de facto owner of the White House; being able to do what you wish with something is the definition of what "ownership" IS.
BPSCG said:
Meh, I'm ending up a Castro apologist which is not where I wanted to end up.
Anyway, to answer the second part, he'd probably be shot. Running up and claiming Air Force One might not get you shot (unless you have a nice chocolate revolver that you want to give to the President as a gift too), but I doubt you can fly to Tampa Bay in it whenever you feel like it either.
However, Bush can fly that thing virtually anywhere he wants, even though he technically doesn't own it just as much as I don't.
Anyway, this is a trivial argument in which I doubt we disagree over anything other than the technical definition of "ownership", so I'll stop being an ass.
aerocontrols
Illuminator
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You can't own property, man.
Bjorn
Off Topic
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rikzilla said:
I'm not going to be the Cuba apologist here, but facts are they aren't doing bad at all in some areas. Your sources aren't exactly unbiased.
Life expectancy at birth, Cuba:
total population: 77.04 years
male: 74.77 years
female: 79.44 years (2004 est.)
US:
total population: 77.43 years
male: 74.63 years
female: 80.36 years (2004 est.)
Literacy, Cuba:
total population: 97%
male: 97.2%
female: 96.9% (2003 est.)
US:
total population: 97%
male: 97%
female: 97% (1999 est.)
Infant mortality rate, Cuba:
total: 6.45 deaths/1,000 live births
male: 7.25 deaths/1,000 live births
female: 5.6 deaths/1,000 live births (2004 est.)
US:
total: 6.63 deaths/1,000 live births
male: 7.31 deaths/1,000 live births
female: 5.91 deaths/1,000 live births (2004 est.)
Compare and enjoy. And don't quote www.therealcuba.com for facts on Cuba.
My biased source is the CIA factbook. Again, don't think I am considering moving there, but facts are facts.
aerocontrols
Illuminator
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Mycroft said:
What if Bush decides to sell the American Presidential limo and give the money to his good friend Mycroft?
What if Castro decides to sell the Cuban Presidential limo and give the money to his good friend Mycroft?