Colonising Venus

[Octavo]

I did a forum search for a similar thread but couldn't find much, so here goes:

Assume for the purposes of this thread that all of Earth has united behind the idea of colonising Venus within a maximum of 500 years. Assume further that we have as a planet decided that Mars isn't worth it (for whatever reason) and we're absolutely set on Venus as our target.

What are our best options and what should we start doing first?

Major problems with Venus:
Surface temperature
Surface pressure
Atmospheric composition
Day/Night cycle incredibly long

Which of these (maybe I've missed more important problems?) should we tackle first to make colonisation possible?

Should we completely abandon surface habitation as far too technically difficult and settle for cloud cities in the atmosphere where the temperature and pressure are more viable?

If we devoted all of our resources to research, could we not engineer organisms that could terraform Venus within that time period? Perhaps some genetically modified bacteria that consume CO2 and excrete O2 in sufficient quantities to render the atmosphere breathable?

Not sure how we would solve the rotation problem though. I expect the energy expenditure to spin up Venus would be ridiculous even on the time scale of centuries.

 

[Puppycow]

Kind of hard to buy the premise. A bit like deciding to live inside a furnace. Who would do that?

The first three things you listed would be the major problems, and they all seem to be dealbreakers to me.

 

[Puppycow]

If we had some kind of technology to put a radiation shield around the planet to block/reflect most of the sun's radiation, that would be a good first step, but there are still many other problems that would need to be solved after that.

 

[anglolawyer]

How long did it take our vegetation to terraform the Earth so we could breath? Bit more than 500 years I think. Whatever, can we know some facts about Venus? Like what is it's surface temp. and pressure, atmospheric composition (mostly carbon dioxide?) and length of day?

I once showed my son the transit of Venus in the school playground (he was about 5 years old) with a pair of binoculars and a sheet of paper. I was quickly surrounded by a crowd of little kids wanting to see it too. Astronomy is so cool even the little ones are fascinated. Venus looked very small against the vast disk of the Sun. We would need decent polaroids to live there and 500 factor sun-cream.

 

[Duffy Moon]

The problems - and hypothetical solutions - are discussed here.

 

[Octavo]

Kind of hard to buy the premise. A bit like deciding to live inside a furnace. Who would do that?

The first three things you listed would be the major problems, and they all seem to be dealbreakers to me.

I thought my OP made it fairly clear that the premise is not in question. Assume we have decided to do this (the reasoning for it is irrelevant really). The point being I would enjoy discussing the possibilities of *how* we might do this, not why.

How long did it take our vegetation to terraform the Earth so we could breath? Bit more than 500 years I think. Whatever, can we know some facts about Venus? Like what is it's surface temp. and pressure, atmospheric composition (mostly carbon dioxide?) and length of day?

Yes, I assume earth vegetation took many millenia to achieve a breathable atmosphere, but then that process was entirely natural. I'm no expert, but is it beyond the bounds of probability that we could engineer organisms that could do it significantly faster?

Surface temp is 462 °C, pressure is 93 bar and the atmospheric comp is 96% CO2 with nitrogen and other trace gases making up the rest.

One day on Venus is about 243 Earth days I believe. So, pretty damn long.

The problems - and hypothetical solutions - are discussed here.

Thanks for that Duffy Moon Perhaps the many, very knowledgeable posters here would have some new ideas or would like to throw out some new possibilities?

 

[anglolawyer]

The problems - and hypothetical solutions - are discussed here.

Er, first question: how the heck do we build a solar shade four times the diameter of the planet (even if we thought it would not be blown from the optimal position by solar wind). When did we ever build anything that big? I know the OP says the entire planet is behind the project, which is good for other reasons, but even with that I wonder. Is there a total, harnessable energy output for the Earth capable of producing a surplus big enough to lift all this stuff off the planet and assemble it in space? Or would we make the thing out of passing asteroids?

 

[Reivax]

I think it'd just be easier shifting its orbit, opposed to shading the planet with radiation reflecting heat shields. Either way, going to be a doozie.

 

[anglolawyer]

I think it'd just be easier shifting its orbit, opposed to shading the planet with radiation reflecting heat shields. Either way, going to be a doozie.

Shifting its orbit? LOL. HTF do we do that?

 

[Jack by the hedge]

...Surface temp is 462 °C, pressure is 93 bar and the atmospheric comp is 96% CO2 with nitrogen and other trace gases making up the rest.

One day on Venus is about 243 Earth days I believe. So, pretty damn long.

So living on the surface would be like living in a diving bell in a furnace. I wonder if living inside a fleet of air-filled 'zeppelins' might be a better habitation in the upper atmosphere.

 

[anglolawyer]

So living on the surface would be like living in a diving bell in a furnace. I wonder if living inside a fleet of air-filled 'zeppelins' might be a better habitation in the upper atmosphere.

I don't want to subvert the thread but why can't we live in these zeppelins in our own atmosphere? OK, forget I said that. This has 'impossible' written all over it. Exactly like flying to the moon was to Christopher Columbus. Oh wait ...

 

[Octavo]

I don't want to subvert the thread but why can't we live in these zeppelins in our own atmosphere? OK, forget I said that. This has 'impossible' written all over it. Exactly like flying to the moon was to Christopher Columbus. Oh wait ...

Well, CO2 is pretty dense, so I guess Helium would have much better lifting capacity in the Venusian atmosphere. Also at the right height the pressure and temperature is near perfect and with 0.9g, it sounds plausible to me.

Maybe we could use floating cities as a useful first step while we wait for our other plans to mature and make the surface habitable too?

 

[Jack by the hedge]

I don't want to subvert the thread but why can't we live in these zeppelins in our own atmosphere?

Because our atmosphere is much thinner. If you built a giant zeppelin, filled it with air and built accomodation inside it, it would just sit on the ground.

In Venus's thick atmostphere you might be able to make it float. Though breathable air is broadly similar in density to Venusian atmosphere at the same pressure, so the zeppelin would have to support external pressure as it'd sink down into thicker atmosphere before it could be buoyant. More of an 'atmospheric submarine' than a zeppelin, I suppose. It'd be much heavier than a conventional zeppelin, as a consequence of having to resist external pressure, so the question is whether you can make it light and strong enough to float, or would it just sink to the surface anyway?

 

[anglolawyer]

Well, CO2 is pretty dense, so I guess Helium would have much better lifting capacity in the Venusian atmosphere. Also at the right height the pressure and temperature is near perfect and with 0.9g, it sounds plausible to me.

Maybe we could use floating cities as a useful first step while we wait for our other plans to mature and make the surface habitable too?

OK. How big would these things be allowed to be? What constrains the size of a zeppelin? I mean, we might want to go to football matches and stuff.

Also, is there weather in the upper atmosphere? Might we get blown about a bit? Do we tether these things to the ground?

 

[Octavo]

OK. How big would these things be allowed to be? What constrains the size of a zeppelin? I mean, we might want to go to football matches and stuff.

Also, is there weather in the upper atmosphere? Might we get blown about a bit? Do we tether these things to the ground?

Well I was really hoping more knowledgeable people could educate me on that score

Excuse my ignorance of density and lift, but would a rigid "gas bag" containing a vacuum not give more lift than helium?

I suppose the wind is probably pretty fierce given that Venus has such a long day. I wonder if current technology could construct an airship or habitat capable of withstanding the wind. We needn't anchor the thing to the ground, provided we give it some navigational control. Perhaps we could find something like the trade winds and just sail endlessly around the planet

 

[anglolawyer]

Well I was really hoping more knowledgeable people could educate me on that score

Excuse my ignorance of density and lift, but would a rigid "gas bag" containing a vacuum not give more lift than helium?

I suppose the wind is probably pretty fierce given that Venus has such a long day. I wonder if current technology could construct an airship or habitat capable of withstanding the wind. We needn't anchor the thing to the ground, provided we give it some navigational control. Perhaps we could find something like the trade winds and just sail endlessly around the planet

Shucks! You have somehow noticed I don't seem to have the faintest idea what I'm talking about. How the heck you figured that out beats the hell out of me.

 

[Reivax]

Shifting its orbit? LOL. HTF do we do that?

Well theoretically we could attach heat-proof boosters to one side which would propel it out of its orbit. I know this sounds ridiculous, but I think it's more efficient than terraforming an artificially shaded Venus in its current orbit. I mean how sustainable is the shield long term? Surely it will need to be replaced.

 

[PixyMisa]

The easiest way to colonise Venus would be to secretly go through every book, magazine, research paper, and database in the world that mentions Venus or Mars and switch the names.

 

[Octavo]

The easiest way to colonise Venus would be to secretly go through every book, magazine, research paper, and database in the world that mentions Venus or Mars and switch the names.

We have always been at war with Eastasia colonising Mars.

 

[Duffy Moon]

Excuse my ignorance of density and lift, but would a rigid "gas bag" containing a vacuum not give more lift than helium?

I've often thought that that would be the case.

However, it's a case of "first, invent material strong enough and light enough to be rigid whilst containing vacuum".




I think terraforming planets would be so expensive and take so long that nobody would put up the money - who would invest in something that might possibly bear fruit in 500 years time?

Placing people on planets on a semi-permanent basis for financial gain, however...

If there was some resource on Venus that could be commercially exploited then I could imagine modest-sized structures (future material science permitting, of course) that people could live in, whether that be on the surface or in the atmosphere.

The analogy I'm thinking of when I type this is oil rigs - they're often placed in very inhospitable places on Earth but the financial rewards make them cost-effective.