Cochrane on meditation: Yes or No

yrreg

Master Poster
Y
Joined
Nov 24, 2005
Messages
2,420
The present exercise is intended to answer with Yes or No to the following question, on the authority of Cochrane:

Has meditation effected a relief to anxiety? Yes or No.​

Our text is the abstract of Cochrane of its review on the therapeutic benefits of meditation:

Meditation therapy for anxiety disorders
http://www.cochrane.org/reviews/en/ab004998.html​

For our purpose I will just reproduce a post of mine from my thread on Facts and Fictions in Acupuncture:


In that post I encircled with a pen all the mentions of meditation and anxiety found in the Cochrane's abstract, in an enumerated succession of lines.


1. Meditation therapy for anxiety disorders Krisanaprakornkit T, Krisanaprakornkit W, Piyavhatkul N, Laopaiboon M Plain language summary...

2. Although meditation therapy is widely used in many anxiety-related conditions there is still a lack of studies in anxiety disorder patients.

3. The small number of studies included in this review do not permit any conclusions to be drawn on the effectiveness of meditation therapy for anxiety disorders.

4. Transcendental meditation is comparable with other kinds of relaxation therapies in reducing anxiety, and Kundalini Yoga did not show significant effectiveness in treating obsessive-compulsive disorders compared with Relaxation/Meditation.

5. Drop out rates appear to to be high, and adverse effects of meditation have not been reported.

6. Anxiety disorders are characterised by long term worry, tension, nervousness, fidgeting and symptoms of autonomic system hyperactivity.

7. Meditation is an age-old self regulatory strategy which is gaining more interest in mental health and psychiatry.

8. Meditation can reduce arousal state and may ameliorate anxiety symptoms in various anxiety conditions.

9. Objectives: To investigate the effectiveness of meditation therapy in treating anxiety disorders...

10. Types of participants: patients with a diagnosis of anxiety disorders, with or without another comorbid psychiatric condition.

11. Types of interventions: concentrative meditation or mindfulness meditation.

12. ...psychological treatment 3) other methods of meditation 4) no intervention or waiting list.

13. Types of outcome: 1) improvement in clinical anxiety scale 2) improvement in anxiety level specified by triallists, or global improvement 3) acceptability of treatment, adverse effects 4) dropout.

14. Both studies were of moderate quality and used active control comparisons (another type of meditation, relaxation, biofeedback).

15. Anti-anxiety drugs were used as standard treatment.

16. In one study transcendental meditation showed a reduction in anxiety symptoms and electromyography score comparable with electromyography-biofeedback and relaxation therapy.

17. Another study compared Kundalini Yoga (KY), with Relaxation/Mindfulness Meditation.

18. The small number of studies included in this review do not permit any conclusions to be drawn on the effectiveness of meditation therapy for anxiety disorders.

19. Transcendental meditation is comparable with other kinds of relaxation therapies in reducing anxiety, and Kundalini Yoga did not show significant effectiveness in treating obsessive-compulsive disorders compared with Relaxation/Meditation.

20. Drop out rates appear to be high, and adverse effects of meditation have not been reported.
Click to expand...
How then now do I answer the question:

Has meditation effected a relief to anxiety? Yes or No.​

I answer Yes.


What about the skeptics in this JREF Forum?



Yrreg, aspiring Fat Laughing Buddha

---------------

From Nirvana with love, Bude.
3buddhas5oh.gif
 
18. The small number of studies included in this review do not permit any conclusions to be drawn on the effectiveness of meditation therapy for anxiety disorders
Click to expand...

Your text seems to conclude that it's inconclusive. Therefore, neither yes nor no can be answered.

But you already knew that, didn't you?
 
yrreg said:
The present exercise is intended to answer with Yes or No to the following question, on the authority of Cochrane:

Has meditation effected a relief to anxiety? Yes or No.​

Our text is the abstract of Cochrane of its review on the therapeutic benefits of meditation:

Meditation therapy for anxiety disorders
http://www.cochrane.org/reviews/en/ab004998.html​

For our purpose I will just reproduce a post of mine from my thread on Facts and Fictions in Acupuncture:


In that post I encircled with a pen all the mentions of meditation and anxiety found in the Cochrane's abstract, in an enumerated succession of lines.



How then now do I answer the question:

Has meditation effected a relief to anxiety? Yes or No.​

I answer Yes.


What about the skeptics in this JREF Forum?



Yrreg, aspiring Fat Laughing Buddha

---------------

From Nirvana with love, Bude.
3buddhas5oh.gif
Click to expand...
:words:
 
So, does meditation cure cancer?

'cause that's what I have anxiety about...
 
There's a claim about meditation in that jibberish?! Amazing. I try to look at it and my eyes just slide right off the page. Then my brain freezes up, and all I see are :words:. Anyone ever read Snowcrash? I have a rough idea now what the binary virus might have looked like.

Any guesses why he formats his posts this way?
 
delphi_ote said:
There's a claim about meditation in that jibberish?! Amazing. I try to look at it and my eyes just slide right off the page. Then my brain freezes up, and all I see are :words:.
Click to expand...
So how do you distinguish this from your normal cognitive operation?
 
You'd do better following the Cochrane link direct. Cochrane is a *brilliant* site, it's all about evidence.

The Cochrane conclusion so far is that there isn't enough data to draw a conclusion.
 
yrreg said:
Our text is the abstract of Cochrane of its review on the therapeutic benefits of meditation:

Meditation therapy for anxiety disorders

For our purpose I will just reproduce a post of mine from my thread on Facts and Fictions in Acupuncture:


In that post I encircled with a pen all the mentions of meditation and anxiety found in the Cochrane's abstract, in an enumerated succession of lines.



How then now do I answer the question:

Has meditation effected a relief to anxiety? Yes or No.​

I answer Yes.
Click to expand...
So you're concluding that meditation has "effected a relief to anxiety" because a review of studies of meditation therapy for anxiety disorders mentioned meditation and anxiety quite a lot? It would inevitably mention meditation and anxiety, even if it concluded that it is completely ineffective, because THAT'S WHAT THE REVIEW IS ABOUT!

The review in fact concluded that
The small number of studies included in this review do not permit any conclusions to be drawn on the effectiveness of meditation therapy for anxiety disorders ... More trials are needed.
Click to expand...
In other words, they concluded that the evidence is not good enough to give a yes or no answer.

You seem to respect the Cochrane Library as an authoritative source, but you are implying that in this case the authors of that review have reached the wrong conclusion. What makes you think they are wrong in their conclusion?
 
Let me see now.

If the question is "Does sitting down in a comfy place and doing absolutely nothing except repeating something meaningless to stop your brain from thinking, stop you worrying?" then Yes, of course it does.

A nice cup of tea and a natter has much the same effect.
 
Did you search very line meticulously?

Ryokan said:
18. The small number of studies included in this review do not permit any conclusions to be drawn on the effectiveness of meditation therapy for anxiety disorders
Click to expand...
Your text seems to conclude that it's inconclusive. Therefore, neither yes nor no can be answered.

But you already knew that, didn't you?
Click to expand...

You can exercise your free will to in effect abstain from answering Yes or No; but if you were in an examination of the objective type, that is one answer deducted from total perfect score.

As a matter of fact, abstaining from answering Yes or No indicates that you are not using your reading comprehension skill and thinking faculty as you should.

Allow me to remind you of what I suggested in an earlier thread on how to practice reading comprehension, specially when you are given a text that is produced by a very serious research establishment, like the Cochrane Collaboration.

From the thread, Facts and Fictions in Acupuncture, page 5, post #167 (http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1501432&postcount=167)
I have some tips for people who care to be genuine skeptics:

1. Read very carefully what the question is all about (that is also and already a challenge to your reading comprehension).

2. Encircle with your pen every mention of acupuncture and of pain in the given text.

3. Locate categorical statements in the text which convey in no uncertain terms that acupuncture effects or does not effect relief of low-back pain.

4. On the basis of these categorical affirmative and negative statements, choose your answer Yes or No.

For an illustration on the use of these tips, see my post #159 of the present thread, page 2, above, http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php...&postcount=159


Should you happen to be in an open competitive examination for any reward, like admission to a limited enrollment in a prestigious graduate studies center, and the admission committee disagrees with you about your answer to that question, you can then challenge them all to the highest court of the land; and you will win.
Click to expand...

Please read most carefully the whole text again from Cochrane, and exercise your attention for every line, every phrase, and every word.

Meditation therapy for anxiety disorders ttp://www.cochrane.org/reviews/en/ab004998.html​

-------------------

Have you not been looking for scientific evidence for the benefits of meditation, which you as a Buddhist claim to possess efficacy? And didn't you tell us in an earlier thread that you would produce documentations that have withstood peer-reviews?

Well, I think I have done the job for you, with the text from Cochrane on meditation and relief from anxiety.


Yrreg, aspiring Fat Laughing Buddha

---------------

From Nirvana with love, Bude.
3buddhas5oh.gif
 
Wow, that's a condescending and logically flawed instructional on reading critically.

Whether a text repeats meditation/accupuncture does/does not have an effect is meaningless without evidence.

To put it simply:

Just repeating something does not make it true.

Try again.
 
Correction: truncated link

Truncated link, missing h in http:
Meditation therapy for anxiety disorders ttp://www.cochrane.org/reviews/en/ab004998.html

Restored link:
Meditation therapy for anxiety disorders http://www.cochrane.org/reviews/en/ab004998.html

Sorry for the inconvenience; copying from a copy has its risks in non-workable links.


Just let me know if any link I put in my posts does not work.



Yrreg, aspiring Fat Laughing Buddha

---------------

From Nirvana with love, Bude.
3buddhas5oh.gif
 
Soapy Sam said:
Let me see now.

If the question is "Does sitting down in a comfy place and doing absolutely nothing except repeating something meaningless to stop your brain from thinking, stop you worrying?" then Yes, of course it does.
Click to expand...
So that explains yrreg's posting style then. ;)
 
yrreg said:
You can exercise your free will to in effect abstain from answering Yes or No; but if you were in an examination of the objective type, that is one answer deducted from total perfect score.

As a matter of fact, abstaining from answering Yes or No indicates that you are not using your reading comprehension skill and thinking faculty as you should.
Click to expand...
You have this 100% wrong. The fact that you have answered yes to your question on the basis of a review that concludes that "the small number of studies included in this review do not permit any conclusions to be drawn on the effectiveness of meditation therapy for anxiety disorders" indicates that it is your reading comprehension skills and thinking faculties that are deficient.
 
The decisive lines in Cochrane on meditation and anxiety

The present exercise is intended to answer with Yes or No to the following question, on the authority of Cochrane:

Has meditation effected a relief to anxiety? Yes or No.​

Our text is the abstract of Cochrane of its review on the therapeutic benefits of meditation:

Meditation therapy for anxiety disorders
http://www.cochrane.org/reviews/en/ab004998.html​

For our purpose I will just reproduce a post of mine from my thread on Facts and Fictions in Acupuncture:


In that post I encircled with a pen all the mentions of meditation and anxiety found in the Cochrane's report, in an enumerated succession of lines.

1. Meditation therapy for anxiety disorders Krisanaprakornkit T, Krisanaprakornkit W, Piyavhatkul N, Laopaiboon M Plain language summary...

2. Although meditation therapy is widely used in many anxiety-related conditions there is still a lack of studies in anxiety disorder patients.

3. The small number of studies included in this review do not permit any conclusions to be drawn on the effectiveness of meditation therapy for anxiety disorders.

4. Transcendental meditation is comparable with other kinds of relaxation therapies in reducing anxiety, and Kundalini Yoga did not show significant effectiveness in treating obsessive-compulsive disorders compared with Relaxation/Meditation.

5. Drop out rates appear to to be high, and adverse effects of meditation have not been reported.

6. Anxiety disorders are characterised by long term worry, tension, nervousness, fidgeting and symptoms of autonomic system hyperactivity.

7. Meditation is an age-old self regulatory strategy which is gaining more interest in mental health and psychiatry.

8. Meditation can reduce arousal state and may ameliorate anxiety symptoms in various anxiety conditions.

9. Objectives: To investigate the effectiveness of meditation therapy in treating anxiety disorders...

10. Types of participants: patients with a diagnosis of anxiety disorders, with or without another comorbid psychiatric condition.

11. Types of interventions: concentrative meditation or mindfulness meditation.

12. ...psychological treatment 3) other methods of meditation 4) no intervention or waiting list.

13. Types of outcome: 1) improvement in clinical anxiety scale 2) improvement in anxiety level specified by triallists, or global improvement 3) acceptability of treatment, adverse effects 4) dropout.

14. Both studies were of moderate quality and used active control comparisons (another type of meditation, relaxation, biofeedback).

15. Anti-anxiety drugs were used as standard treatment.

16. In one study transcendental meditation showed a reduction in anxiety symptoms and electromyography score comparable with electromyography-biofeedback and relaxation therapy.

17. Another study compared Kundalini Yoga (KY), with Relaxation/Mindfulness Meditation.

18. The small number of studies included in this review do not permit any conclusions to be drawn on the effectiveness of meditation therapy for anxiety disorders.

19. Transcendental meditation is comparable with other kinds of relaxation therapies in reducing anxiety, and Kundalini Yoga did not show significant effectiveness in treating obsessive-compulsive disorders compared with Relaxation/Meditation.

20. Drop out rates appear to be high, and adverse effects of meditation have not been reported.
Click to expand...

I like to invite the attention of readers to this thread to the following two pairs of lines which are exactly identical: the first pair from the plain language summary and the second pair from the abstract proper.

3. The small number of studies included in this review do not permit any conclusions to be drawn on the effectiveness of meditation therapy for anxiety disorders.

4. Transcendental meditation is comparable with other kinds of relaxation therapies in reducing anxiety, and Kundalini Yoga did not show significant effectiveness in treating obsessive-compulsive disorders compared with Relaxation/Meditation.
Click to expand...


18. The small number of studies included in this review do not permit any conclusions to be drawn on the effectiveness of meditation therapy for anxiety disorders.

19. Transcendental meditation is comparable with other kinds of relaxation therapies in reducing anxiety, and Kundalini Yoga did not show significant effectiveness in treating obsessive-compulsive disorders compared with Relaxation/Meditation.
Click to expand...

Now, I ask you, from very careful reading, tell me do you see any conclusions in the two pairs of very important lines from Cochrane.

Next, do you see any statement of fact made by Cochrane.


Read the whole report of Cochrane most meticulously, if you prefer making use of my enumerated lines, and find out what are conclusions made by Cochrane and what are facts established by Cochrane.


Yrreg, aspiring Fat Laughing Buddha

---------------

From Nirvana with love, Bude.
3buddhas5oh.gif
 
So you're saying that lack of evidence to draw a conclusion is evidence in of itself to the positive?

That would be logically fallacious.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom